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Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #75 on: September 10, 2019, 10:10:49 AM »
As ridiculous as an unelected PM with a negative majority of -28 seeking to use a faux GE timing device to be able to take us out on no deal without further parliamentary scrutiny?

Which previous PM was elected...?  rubschin:

It doesn't work like that does it...? ::)
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Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #76 on: September 10, 2019, 10:11:45 AM »
You mean a parliament that has decided the referendum result wasn't what they wanted and have been hell for leather in their attempts to stop Brexit despite the hypocrisy of knowing that despite the referendum using the exact same procedures and protocols as the election that voted them in, in most, if not all cases, the percentage majority who voted to leave is greater than the percentage of those who did not vote them into individual office. An opposition leader who's only reason for blocking legitimate elections is that he knows he has royally fucked over his party's heartland and would get hammered at the polls. A speaker who has ignored the core tenant of his role to be an impartial voice. A remain core who have gone out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK just for the chance of being able to overturn a democratic decision.

 happ096
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Offline Darwins Selection

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #77 on: September 10, 2019, 12:36:35 PM »
You mean a parliament that has decided the referendum result wasn't what they wanted and have been hell for leather in their attempts to stop Brexit despite the hypocrisy of knowing that despite the referendum using the exact same procedures and protocols as the election that voted them in, in most, if not all cases, the percentage majority who voted to leave is greater than the percentage of those who did not vote them into individual office. An opposition leader who's only reason for blocking legitimate elections is that he knows he has royally fucked over his party's heartland and would get hammered at the polls. A speaker who has ignored the core tenant of his role to be an impartial voice. A remain core who have gone out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK just for the chance of being able to overturn a democratic decision.

 happ096
happ096  happ096

But apart from that, what has democracy done for us?
I mostly despair

Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #78 on: September 10, 2019, 12:42:42 PM »
You mean a parliament that has decided the referendum result wasn't what they wanted and have been hell for leather in their attempts to stop Brexit despite the hypocrisy of knowing that despite the referendum using the exact same procedures and protocols as the election that voted them in, in most, if not all cases, the percentage majority who voted to leave is greater than the percentage of those who did not vote them into individual office. An opposition leader who's only reason for blocking legitimate elections is that he knows he has royally fucked over his party's heartland and would get hammered at the polls. A speaker who has ignored the core tenant of his role to be an impartial voice. A remain core who have gone out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK just for the chance of being able to overturn a democratic decision.

 happ096
happ096  happ096

But apart from that, what has democracy done for us?

 lol: lol: lol:
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Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #79 on: September 10, 2019, 12:53:51 PM »
You mean a parliament that has decided the referendum result wasn't what they wanted and have been hell for leather in their attempts to stop Brexit despite the hypocrisy of knowing that despite the referendum using the exact same procedures and protocols as the election that voted them in, in most, if not all cases, the percentage majority who voted to leave is greater than the percentage of those who did not vote them into individual office. An opposition leader who's only reason for blocking legitimate elections is that he knows he has royally fucked over his party's heartland and would get hammered at the polls. A speaker who has ignored the core tenant of his role to be an impartial voice. A remain core who have gone out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK just for the chance of being able to overturn a democratic decision.

 happ096
happ096  happ096

But apart from that, what has democracy done for us?

 lol: lol: lol:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/08/shawn-rosenberg-democracy-228045

 rubschin:
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Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #80 on: September 10, 2019, 01:52:25 PM »
You mean a parliament that has decided the referendum result wasn't what they wanted and have been hell for leather in their attempts to stop Brexit despite the hypocrisy of knowing that despite the referendum using the exact same procedures and protocols as the election that voted them in, in most, if not all cases, the percentage majority who voted to leave is greater than the percentage of those who did not vote them into individual office. An opposition leader who's only reason for blocking legitimate elections is that he knows he has royally fucked over his party's heartland and would get hammered at the polls. A speaker who has ignored the core tenant of his role to be an impartial voice. A remain core who have gone out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK just for the chance of being able to overturn a democratic decision.
No, a parliament that's unhappy the Brexit plan is very far from what they were promised by that liar Bojo so won't let him run with his pyrrhic plan or allow him to force it on the country by getting permission for an election using a false promise it'd be October 14th

You do know how to spot when Boris is lying don't you?
Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #81 on: September 10, 2019, 02:28:02 PM »
You mean a parliament that has decided the referendum result wasn't what they wanted and have been hell for leather in their attempts to stop Brexit despite the hypocrisy of knowing that despite the referendum using the exact same procedures and protocols as the election that voted them in, in most, if not all cases, the percentage majority who voted to leave is greater than the percentage of those who did not vote them into individual office. An opposition leader who's only reason for blocking legitimate elections is that he knows he has royally fucked over his party's heartland and would get hammered at the polls. A speaker who has ignored the core tenant of his role to be an impartial voice. A remain core who have gone out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK just for the chance of being able to overturn a democratic decision.
No, a parliament that's unhappy the Brexit plan is very far from what they were promised by that liar Bojo so won't let him run with his pyrrhic plan or allow him to force it on the country by getting permission for an election using a false promise it'd be October 14th

You do know how to spot when Boris is lying don't you?

Are you trying to say that Boris is the only dishonest politician in Westminster? How about Corbyn's 'we will abide by the results of the referendum' speech. The single biggest handicap that the negotiations had was a parliament that was fighting itself instead of working together to come up with the best deal for the country. And let's he honest about Labour here, most of the northern constituencies who voted to leave had watched their labour MP fight for the remain side in total contempt for those who had elected them. That is why the coward is terrified of having an election before the end of October. Plus the EU knows just how weak it is economically at the moment and that a no deal brexit would likely have been the start of the collapse as they would have not only lost one of their primary contributors but also seen Germany's economy go into recession not to mention that France is already ignoring their deficit. That's why there have been a noticeable number of European politicians demanding that the EU comes up with a deal that is fair to the UK. No deal was the ultimate bargaining tool before a large number of MP's put the EU before the UK.

As for MP's trying to stop something being forced on the country, let's look at the organisation that they are fighting to remain a part of.

The French had a referendum on the EU constitution where they voted overwhelmingly against. It was later repackaged as the Lisbon Treaty and Sarkosy signed it into law without giving the electorate a say in the matter.
The Irish referendum on the same treaty had to be repeated until the Irish said yes, and that wasn't the first time that had happened.
The Irish referendum on the treaty of Nice was also repeated until they said yes.
While they did an appalling job of it the democratically elected government of Greece was forced to stand down and be replaced by eurocrats before aid money was made available an action that could easily be described as an economic coup. And I'm sure that BM and co can give a good description of the economic effects of that new leadership on the area.

If you are going to condemn something being forced on a country then you do it equally across the board. Unless that is, you want a cushy job in the commission once you have left office.


 
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Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #82 on: September 10, 2019, 02:32:08 PM »
You mean a parliament that has decided the referendum result wasn't what they wanted and have been hell for leather in their attempts to stop Brexit despite the hypocrisy of knowing that despite the referendum using the exact same procedures and protocols as the election that voted them in, in most, if not all cases, the percentage majority who voted to leave is greater than the percentage of those who did not vote them into individual office. An opposition leader who's only reason for blocking legitimate elections is that he knows he has royally fucked over his party's heartland and would get hammered at the polls. A speaker who has ignored the core tenant of his role to be an impartial voice. A remain core who have gone out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK just for the chance of being able to overturn a democratic decision.
No, a parliament that's unhappy the Brexit plan is very far from what they were promised by that liar Bojo so won't let him run with his pyrrhic plan or allow him to force it on the country by getting permission for an election using a false promise it'd be October 14th

You do know how to spot when Boris is lying don't you?

Are you trying to say that Boris is the only dishonest politician in Westminster? How about Corbyn's 'we will abide by the results of the referendum' speech. The single biggest handicap that the negotiations had was a parliament that was fighting itself instead of working together to come up with the best deal for the country. And let's he honest about Labour here, most of the northern constituencies who voted to leave had watched their labour MP fight for the remain side in total contempt for those who had elected them. That is why the coward is terrified of having an election before the end of October. Plus the EU knows just how weak it is economically at the moment and that a no deal brexit would likely have been the start of the collapse as they would have not only lost one of their primary contributors but also seen Germany's economy go into recession not to mention that France is already ignoring their deficit. That's why there have been a noticeable number of European politicians demanding that the EU comes up with a deal that is fair to the UK. No deal was the ultimate bargaining tool before a large number of MP's put the EU before the UK.

As for MP's trying to stop something being forced on the country, let's look at the organisation that they are fighting to remain a part of.

The French had a referendum on the EU constitution where they voted overwhelmingly against. It was later repackaged as the Lisbon Treaty and Sarkosy signed it into law without giving the electorate a say in the matter.
The Irish referendum on the same treaty had to be repeated until the Irish said yes, and that wasn't the first time that had happened.
The Irish referendum on the treaty of Nice was also repeated until they said yes.
While they did an appalling job of it the democratically elected government of Greece was forced to stand down and be replaced by eurocrats before aid money was made available an action that could easily be described as an economic coup. And I'm sure that BM and co can give a good description of the economic effects of that new leadership on the area.

If you are going to condemn something being forced on a country then you do it equally across the board. Unless that is, you want a cushy job in the commission once you have left office.


 

 happ096
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Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #83 on: September 10, 2019, 02:35:46 PM »
Are you trying to say that Boris is the only dishonest politician in Westminster?  . . .
No there's at least Gove, Patel and Raab as well as yes Corbyn

You have to ask yourself two questions

- did the public (narrowly) vote for no deal or the promise made by Vote Leave?

- what legal guarantee did liar Boris provide that once given permission for an early election he wouldn't make it Nov 5th?

And that's why Labour etc didn't vote for that early election

-

Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #84 on: September 10, 2019, 02:44:38 PM »
Are you trying to say that Boris is the only dishonest politician in Westminster?  . . .
No there's at least Gove, Patel and Raab as well as yes Corbyn

You have to ask yourself two questions

- did the public (narrowly) vote for no deal or the promise made by Vote Leave?

- what legal guarantee did liar Boris provide that once given permission for an early election he wouldn't make it Nov 5th?

And that's why Labour etc didn't vote for that early election

-

No, they voted 'Leave' it was the binary choice they were offered - Remain or Leave...





As I've pointed out before, 'No Deal', 'Crashing out without a deal' etc. are post-referendum scary terms invented by loser Remoaners...
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Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #85 on: September 10, 2019, 02:50:32 PM »
Unlike most MP's I'm not arrogant enough to speak for the public so I'll say that in my case I voted leave knowing that it would mean the end of the trade deals but believing that the EU would negotiate in good faith in order to maintain the income stream. I certainly didn't vote for the brexit in name only garbage that May put forward.

You mean despite the fact that he had specifically requested a mid October election so that a new government was in place before the leave date. Plus Boris is well aware that an election now would give him a clear majority due to massive gains in Labour's former heartlands.
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Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #86 on: September 10, 2019, 03:08:12 PM »
Are you trying to say that Boris is the only dishonest politician in Westminster?  . . .
No there's at least Gove, Patel and Raab as well as yes Corbyn

You have to ask yourself two questions

- did the public (narrowly) vote for no deal or the promise made by Vote Leave?

- what legal guarantee did liar Boris provide that once given permission for an early election he wouldn't make it Nov 5th?

And that's why Labour etc didn't vote for that early election

-

No, they voted 'Leave' it was the binary choice they were offered - Remain or Leave...





As I've pointed out before, 'No Deal', 'Crashing out without a deal' etc. are post-referendum scary terms invented by loser Remoaners...
So maybe ask your self why did Boris vote against leaving?

Because the specifics are important perchance?


Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #87 on: September 10, 2019, 03:15:38 PM »
Unlike most MP's I'm not arrogant enough to speak for the public so I'll say that in my case I voted leave knowing that it would mean the end of the trade deals but believing that the EU would negotiate in good faith in order to maintain the income stream. I certainly didn't vote for the brexit in name only garbage that May put forward.

You mean despite the fact that he had specifically requested a mid October election so that a new government was in place before the leave date. Plus Boris is well aware that an election now would give him a clear majority due to massive gains in Labour's former heartlands.
Boris winning an election now is by no means certain.  May thought she had a slam dunk and realised to her cost that elections are fought on a raft of issues and that 'for the many, not the few. slogan will be as powerful now as it was in 2017

There's a whole range of reasons why 17.4 million voted to Leave and even why so many remain supporters apparently didn't bother to vote at all.  Whatever your reasons for voting Leave I suggest two things are certain

Many, maybe millions would have agreed with you

But to get past that 50% line, millions were voting for that leave with free trade promise Boris, Gove etc gave them in writing.   


And if anyone doubts that just put no deal to a vote.  But then the polls say they'd lose so no surprise that they don't want that
Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #88 on: September 10, 2019, 03:16:13 PM »
Are you trying to say that Boris is the only dishonest politician in Westminster?  . . .
No there's at least Gove, Patel and Raab as well as yes Corbyn

You have to ask yourself two questions

- did the public (narrowly) vote for no deal or the promise made by Vote Leave?

- what legal guarantee did liar Boris provide that once given permission for an early election he wouldn't make it Nov 5th?

And that's why Labour etc didn't vote for that early election

-

No, they voted 'Leave' it was the binary choice they were offered - Remain or Leave...





As I've pointed out before, 'No Deal', 'Crashing out without a deal' etc. are post-referendum scary terms invented by loser Remoaners...
So maybe ask your self why did Boris vote against leaving?

Because the specifics are important perchance?

How on Earth does that relate to your original question...? ::)


- did the public (narrowly) vote for no deal or the promise made by Vote Leave?

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Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #89 on: September 10, 2019, 03:18:03 PM »
Unlike most MP's I'm not arrogant enough to speak for the public so I'll say that in my case I voted leave knowing that it would mean the end of the trade deals but believing that the EU would negotiate in good faith in order to maintain the income stream. I certainly didn't vote for the brexit in name only garbage that May put forward.

You mean despite the fact that he had specifically requested a mid October election so that a new government was in place before the leave date. Plus Boris is well aware that an election now would give him a clear majority due to massive gains in Labour's former heartlands.
Boris winning an election now is by no means certain.  May thought she had a slam dunk and realised to her cost that elections are fought on a raft of issues and that 'for the many, not the few. slogan will be as powerful now as it was in 2017

There's a whole range of reasons why 17.4 million voted to Leave and even why so many remain supporters apparently didn't bother to vote at all.  Whatever your reasons for voting Leave I suggest two things are certain

Many, maybe millions would have agreed with you

But to get past that 50% line, millions were voting for that leave with free trade promise Boris, Gove etc gave them in writing.   


And if anyone doubts that just put no deal to a vote.  But then the polls say they'd lose so no surprise that they don't want that

Absolute bollox! You have no idea why people voted - you certainly have no idea why I voted any more than I know why Remoaners voted as they did... ::)
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