This can't be right surely

[Grumpmeister]

The first of our 2 new bloody expensive aircraft carriers enters service in 2016, both will be in service by 2020 and the air defence radar will be ready in 2022. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2409511/Royal-Navys-new-aircraft-carriers-set-sail-radar-cover-reveals-damning-report.html

[boogs]

The first of our 2 new bloody expensive aircraft carriers enters service in 2016, both will be in service by 2020 and the air defence radar will be ready in 2022. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2409511/Royal-Navys-new-aircraft-carriers-set-sail-radar-cover-reveals-damning-report.html

It just beggars belief that we have been so long without them at all an island nation needing to get them from elsewhere now this debarkle ....   

[Uncle Mort]

"could" is the operative word here. Also there still will be radar on the ships (which would include those on destroyer pickets) plus the CAP.

[Grumpmeister]

I know that there would be the CAP and destroyer pickets, I would guess there would be something along the lines of the American Aegis cruisers in place but if there is going to be a gap in the carrier's systems wouldn't it make sense to have an interim air defence radar in place which could be swapped out once the replacement is ready. I admit it would add to the expense but if you've forked out £10 billion for the carriers and whatever on top for the aircraft wouldn't you want to make sure it was as well protected as possible.

[Uncle Mort]

...wouldn't it make sense to have an interim air defence radar in place which could be swapped out once the replacement is ready

There probably is, but that wouldn't make such a good scare story.

[Grumpmeister]

True, the Guardian was covering the story as well but I couldn't get on the page to check it.

[Barman]

And we still piss £10B a year away in overseas aid..... 

[Uncle Mort]

From Naval technology.com


The Royal Navy currently operates 13 Sea Kings, integrated with Thales Searchwater 2000 radars, as reported by Flightglobal's Ascend Online Fleets database.

"Delivering a new system by three years is expected to create a potential airborne early warning services capability gap for the navy."

Commenting on the potential delay, Dunne said: "If Crowsnest were not available immediately on retirement of SKASaC, other systems could provide a surveillance and control capability until such time as Crowsnest came into service."

As part of the Crowsnest project, Thales had earlier proposed to integrate the Royal Navy's AgustaWestland AW101 Merlin multi-mission helicopters with existing radars.

Lockheed Martin UK Integrated Systems and Northrop Grumman have also teamed up to develop a similar product, known as Vigilance, which will be flight tested with a Merlin this month.

[Steve]

Some interesting info in the actual report http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmpubacc/113/113.pdf

The problem we always struggle with is the public will not support the budgets needed to have the military equipment and support for same we logically need.  The situation will persist until the UK suffers a significant military reverse and I hope that won't happen in my lifetime but rather expect it might. 

Incidentally the general equipment budget issue directly led to me deciding to quit the whole industry last year as I knew my role was getting pointless and it was better to walk out before my employer worked it out.

[Barman]

Some interesting info in the actual report http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmpubacc/113/113.pdf

The problem we always struggle with is the public will not support the budgets needed to have the military equipment and support for same we logically need. The situation will persist until the UK suffers a significant military reverse and I hope that won't happen in my lifetime but rather expect it might. 

Incidentally the general equipment budget issue directly led to me deciding to quit the whole industry last year as I knew my role was getting pointless and it was better to walk out before my employer worked it out.

I don't think that is true tho.... 

If you gave the public the option of spending on the military, having a navy like we used to, functioning aircraft carriers, a full-time fully-equipped army, etc. or pissing their hard-earned away on HS2 and other shite that nobody wants I'm sure the answer would be unequivocal....

[Steve]

The parties respond to focus groups and seems what wins elections is Health Service, Pensions, General Economy, National Security and Ejucation

We have fallen way down the curve on defence research and advanced development and with the cold war over the public no longer sees that as a threat to national security.

[Barman]

The parties respond to focus groups and seems what wins elections is Health Service, Pensions, General Economy, National Security and Ejucation

We have fallen way down the curve on defence research and advanced development and with the cold war over the public no longer sees that as a threat to national security.

Except we all know how focus groups work - they choose the group and the question in order to achieve the desired outcome....

If they actually listened to the voters we'd bring back hanging, repeal the smoking ban and not spend £42B on HS2 or £10B on foreign aid....

[Steve]

The parties respond to focus groups and seems what wins elections is Health Service, Pensions, General Economy, National Security and Ejucation

We have fallen way down the curve on defence research and advanced development and with the cold war over the public no longer sees that as a threat to national security.

Except we all know how focus groups work - they choose the group and the question in order to achieve the desired outcome....

If they actually listened to the voters we'd bring back hanging, repeal the smoking ban and not spend £42B on HS2 or £10B on foreign aid....

What despite that when they ask the question properly only 33% are in favour of hanging?  But asking questions properly doesn't sell tabloids does it so no tabloid has paid for them to ask it properly since.

When British respondents were asked to choose between the death penalty, life imprisonment without the chance of parole and life imprisonment with the chance of parole as the possible sentences for murder, those who said they would prefer the death penalty fell to 33%; but only 19% said they preferred life with the possibility of parole, the mandatory sentence for murder in Britain since 1965. Almost half, 44%, would prefer the sentence to be life without parole

[boogs]

The parties respond to focus groups and seems what wins elections is Health Service, Pensions, General Economy, National Security and Ejucation

We have fallen way down the curve on defence research and advanced development and with the cold war over the public no longer sees that as a threat to national security.

Except we all know how focus groups work - they choose the group and the question in order to achieve the desired outcome....

If they actually listened to the voters we'd bring back hanging, repeal the smoking ban and not spend £42B on HS2 or £10B on foreign aid....

What despite that when they ask the question properly only 33% are in favour of hanging?  But asking questions properly doesn't sell tabloids does it so no tabloid has paid for them to ask it properly since.

When British respondents were asked to choose between the death penalty, life imprisonment without the chance of parole and life imprisonment with the chance of parole as the possible sentences for murder, those who said they would prefer the death penalty fell to 33%; but only 19% said they preferred life with the possibility of parole, the mandatory sentence for murder in Britain since 1965. Almost half, 44%, would prefer the sentence to be life without parole

Is it just me but where do they get these figures from cause speaking for myself ... I know of nobody who has been asked by Mori or anybody else any of these questions ...

So where do they come from.....

[Steve]

They typically interview ~ 1,000 people so with say 40 polls a year the average person will get polled (painful?) about once every 12 lifetimes

So don't hold your breath