Author Topic: It's pay rise time again.  (Read 1060 times)

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Offline Grumpmeister

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It's pay rise time again.
« on: February 25, 2017, 12:31:20 AM »
So our oh so hard working MP's are getting a 1.3% pay rise in April despite getting an increase from 67k to 74k in 2015.

Lets have a look at this a second. 1.4% of 74 grand is 1036, multiplied by 650 MP's comes to 672750
Now lets take a look at the 7 grand pay rise last year, multiplied by 650 MP's, comes to 4550000

A grand total of.............. 5,222,750 added to their salary bill in less than 2 years. Not including 'extras'.

Now lets put this into context

A newly qualified police officer earns 19,773 p/a in their first 2 years
A newly qualified nurse earns 21692 p/a in their first 2 years
A newly qualified doctor earns approximately 23000 p/a in their first 2 years

Those pay rises could have funded 264 new police officers
Those pay rises could have funded 240 new nurses
Those pay rises could have funded 227 new doctors

Or any combination thereof.

Given how clear it has been that both the front line police services as well as the NHS have been shown to be short staffed with services and coverage being cut across the board. Hell one of the biggest reasons why the NHS budget is so buggered up is that it has to fork out an absolute fortune to hire agency and locum staff at a greater cost. Just how the hell can they justify this.  cussing:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4256356/MPs-1-4-cent-pay-rise-76-000.html
Some days I think the only thing keeping me from becoming homicidal is that the voices can't agree on which weapon would be the most fun.

Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2019, 04:38:13 AM »
And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost 200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.

Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html
Some days I think the only thing keeping me from becoming homicidal is that the voices can't agree on which weapon would be the most fun.

Offline Barman

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2019, 05:48:59 AM »
And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost 200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.

Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html

They have no shame have they...?  noooo:
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Offline Nick

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 05:52:08 AM »


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Offline Barman

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 05:54:45 AM »
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Offline Steve

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2019, 08:25:33 AM »
And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost 200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.

Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html
Is this the Commons?  Yep so a serious comment

First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go  noooo: at such but then think it through

Do I want a two house parliament?  yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such?  yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members?  yes
And those that live outside the M25?  yes

So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
 
Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Barman

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 10:56:04 AM »
And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost 200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.

Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html
Is this the Commons?  Yep so a serious comment

First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go  noooo: at such but then think it through

Do I want a two house parliament?  yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such?  yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members?  yes
And those that live outside the M25?  yes

So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
 

Yes but, no but...

I think what you say is largely true...

However...

The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards!  eeek:

I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.

Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...

But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.

And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
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Offline Steve

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2019, 11:42:26 AM »
And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost 200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.

Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html
Is this the Commons?  Yep so a serious comment

First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go  noooo: at such but then think it through

Do I want a two house parliament?  yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such?  yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members?  yes
And those that live outside the M25?  yes

So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
 

Yes but, no but...

I think what you say is largely true...

However...

The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards!  eeek:

I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.

Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...

But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.

And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
Agreed
Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2019, 05:32:36 PM »
And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost 200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.

Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html
Is this the Commons?  Yep so a serious comment

First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go  noooo: at such but then think it through

Do I want a two house parliament?  yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such?  yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members?  yes
And those that live outside the M25?  yes

So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
 

Yes but, no but...

I think what you say is largely true...

However...

The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards!  eeek:

I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.

Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...

But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.

And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
Agreed

Looking at the current system it's untenable. Once the House of Lords did function as it is required to but that was before consecutive governments stuffed it full of flunkies, sycophants and anyone who could afford to pay for a seat or perform a service (don't even get me started on Shami Chakrabarti's 'in depth' probe proving there was no anti semitism in the Labour party). 

On a purely financial level 475 a day for an average of say 150 days a year comes to an income of 72150 a year, now multiply that by the 700 sitting in the House and you end up with 49,875,000 and that is before you start to factor in all the perks such as the subsidised luxury restaurants and bars available to them. Lets also not forget that there have already been cases of members just signing in for the allowance and then not doing anything. If you want to pay them a wage commensurate then you need to make sure that they are actually doing what they are going to be paid for and not just enjoying the facilities.

Long term, for the almost 50 million a year you would be better off either buying or building an accomodation block for the members to use and then not subsidising them if they choose to use a luxury hotel.
Some days I think the only thing keeping me from becoming homicidal is that the voices can't agree on which weapon would be the most fun.

Offline Barman

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2019, 07:11:54 PM »
And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost 200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.

Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html
Is this the Commons?  Yep so a serious comment

First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go  noooo: at such but then think it through

Do I want a two house parliament?  yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such?  yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members?  yes
And those that live outside the M25?  yes

So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
 

Yes but, no but...

I think what you say is largely true...

However...

The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards!  eeek:

I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.

Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...

But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.

And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
Agreed

Looking at the current system it's untenable. Once the House of Lords did function as it is required to but that was before consecutive governments stuffed it full of flunkies, sycophants and anyone who could afford to pay for a seat or perform a service (don't even get me started on Shami Chakrabarti's 'in depth' probe proving there was no anti semitism in the Labour party). 

On a purely financial level 475 a day for an average of say 150 days a year comes to an income of 72150 a year, now multiply that by the 700 sitting in the House and you end up with 49,875,000 and that is before you start to factor in all the perks such as the subsidised luxury restaurants and bars available to them. Lets also not forget that there have already been cases of members just signing in for the allowance and then not doing anything. If you want to pay them a wage commensurate then you need to make sure that they are actually doing what they are going to be paid for and not just enjoying the facilities.

Long term, for the almost 50 million a year you would be better off either buying or building an accomodation block for the members to use and then not subsidising them if they choose to use a luxury hotel.

Quite!  :thumbsup:
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Offline Steve

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2019, 07:25:56 PM »
So if you want top people in our legislature you treat them like schoolchildren in a boarding school

Doesn't work does it

Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Barman

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2019, 06:19:47 AM »
So if you want top people in our legislature you treat them like schoolchildren in a boarding school

Doesn't work does it

Nobody is suggesting that... ::)

But it does seem that our 'political masters' have difficulty finding affordable accommodation in London - hence the demand for a higher daily allowance and the second homes scandal.

I have to say, when I worked at  Grosvenor Place I never found any difficulty finding cheap accommodation when I needed it (got pissed after work and couldn't drive home, tube strike threatened traffic chaos so stayed over, etc.)...

However, given that the 700+ Lords and 600+ MPs can't manage to do that (or get their staff to do it for them) wouldn't it make sense for the state to provide hotel-type accommodation for them? It wouldn't have to be 'boarding school' but it wouldn't have to be six star either. It would have the added advantage of being secure and having secure WiFi and network access (presumably) to the servers at the big house.

You know, taxpayers are paying for this - many of them have a horrendous commute to work every day and back every night funded from their own pockets. I did it for years. I don't think it unreasonable that those taxpayers have a bit of transparency on where their hard-earned is spent if our 'political masters' are really too precious to get themselves to work and home again five days a week.
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Offline Steve

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2019, 09:50:12 AM »
So if you want top people in our legislature you treat them like schoolchildren in a boarding school

Doesn't work does it

Nobody is suggesting that... ::)
 . .
Apart from saying "buying or building an accomodation block for the members to use"  ?
Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Barman

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2019, 09:56:27 AM »
So if you want top people in our legislature you treat them like schoolchildren in a boarding school

Doesn't work does it

Nobody is suggesting that... ::)
 . .
Apart from saying "buying or building an accomodation block for the members to use"  ?

How is that 'treating them like schoolchildren in a boarding school'...?

Did you read the rest of my post or stop there...? ::)
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Offline Steve

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Re: It's pay rise time again.
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2019, 10:19:20 AM »
Oh course I read it

I want top people there regardless of their background wealth and you're never going to get it for 300 a day and offer them an accomondation block which I repeat is going to end up like a boarding school.   You may hate our current politicians but you are never going to change that by making it impossible for decent people with any brain to replace them

As for you experience of staying in London did you do it day after day after day, week after week? 
Well, whatever nevermind