EU

[Nick]

Voting on unknown alterations to amendments - Derek Clark Point of Order

I don't fucking believe it.... 

Don't fret, Steve says it is OK. 

I did?

When?

"Federal European Super State"   

Clearly  ( ) we are all worrying about nothing and the machine of purest democracy rumbles on.

...with the Frogs and the Germans in charge

[Barman]

Voting on unknown alterations to amendments - Derek Clark Point of Order

I don't fucking believe it.... 

Don't fret, Steve says it is OK. 

I did?

When?

"Federal European Super State"   

Clearly  ( ) we are all worrying about nothing and the machine of purest democracy rumbles on.

 

[Steve]

Voting on unknown alterations to amendments - Derek Clark Point of Order

I don't fucking believe it.... 

Don't fret, Steve says it is OK. 

I did?

When?

"Federal European Super State"   

Clearly  ( ) we are all worrying about nothing and the machine of purest democracy rumbles on.

Well can you point out just which parallel universe a "Federal European Super State" exists in

Cos it sure as hell does not exist in this one.  Despite what that nut Trevor Conway would have you believe.

Don't you think what could be the biggest national decision in our lifetimes should be based on facts and not fiction?

[Landlady]

Voting on unknown alterations to amendments - Derek Clark Point of Order

I don't fucking believe it.... 

Don't fret, Steve says it is OK. 

I did?

When?

"Federal European Super State"   

Clearly  ( ) we are all worrying about nothing and the machine of purest democracy rumbles on.

Well can you point out just which parallel universe a "Federal European Super State" exists in

Cos it sure as hell does not exist in this one.  Despite what that nut Trevor Conway would have you believe.

Don't you think what could be the biggest national decision in our lifetimes should be based on facts and not fiction?

Yes I do but will it - probably noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I wish had had more influence on matters of this import but it appears that I do not 
I'm glad that we all have this pub to drown our many associated (and non associated) sorrows in 

[Darwins Selection]

Don't you think what could be the biggest national decision in our lifetimes should be based on facts and not fiction?

I thought that the last time we voted on it, and now we are here again with a similar set of 'facts'.
Plus ca change

[Steve]

Don't you think what could be the biggest national decision in our lifetimes should be based on facts and not fiction?

I thought that the last time we voted on it, and now we are here again with a similar set of 'facts'.
Plus ca change

It's actually worth looking at what you were told the last time we voted on it.  This was the leaflet delivered to every household in the UK

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm

Doesn't say what UKIP tell you we voted on does it?  Clearly says it's about far more than a free trading area.


Don't paint me as a Europhile, I'm far from it as there are serious issues with the EU that need rectifying and soon but I can't see leaving as anything other than painful either.   It's a tough judgement call that needs proper informed decisions.

The point that keeps coming back to me though is this:  if the arguments for leaving were so good, why do Farage and what passes for his front line team have to keep telling lies.  And lie they do, over and over.   So everytime I see one of those lies I for one will challenge it.  And as anyone who's read the key parts of the Lisbon treaty knows, the EU is very much not a federalist super state and due to our 2011 Act it ain't never going to be one while we're in it.

[Grumpmeister]

And now yet another waste of space speaks out saying that we, the electorate, can't be trusted with a referendum.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537029/We-let-people-decide-Mandelson-warns-against-LOTTERY-giving-voters-say-leaving-European-Union.html

I'll tell you what Mandy, I'll consider your position in this matter when you declare EXACTLY how much money and perks you have troughed while poncing around as EU trade commissioner. How much of this is a genuine belief and how much of this comes down to the simple fact that you have enjoyed a lavish lifestyle as a result of your position that you want to maintain no matter what?

[Steve]

And now yet another waste of space speaks out saying that we, the electorate, can't be trusted with a referendum.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537029/We-let-people-decide-Mandelson-warns-against-LOTTERY-giving-voters-say-leaving-European-Union.html

I'll tell you what Mandy, I'll consider your position in this matter when you declare EXACTLY how much money and perks you have troughed while poncing around as EU trade commissioner. How much of this is a genuine belief and how much of this comes down to the simple fact that you have enjoyed a lavish lifestyle as a result of your position that you want to maintain no matter what?

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting Grumpmeister.  Mandy never really did understand that bit about him serving the people did he?

[Nick]

The man is a reptile 

[boogs]

The man is a reptile 

 

A pathetic arrogant wanker at that   

[Grumpmeister]

So corruption in the EU is costing as much as the entire budget for the year and that is on top of the 5 billion Euro VAT fraud on carbon trading (that we know of, God knows just how much we are getting scammed overall). And we only know this now because they in their 'wisdom' decided to investigate the issue. The EU has been going for decades now and you are only just carrying out a token investigation regarding graft and bribery by officials, this is something that should have been in place and done properly from day one. Has it taken so long because of rampant incompetence and negligence or have those responsible for making sure this doesn't happen been enjoying their backhanders too much. Perhaps our imperious leaders in their ivory tower can tell us again why it is in our best interests to be a part of this corrupt unelected fraudulent rancid pile of shite.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/28f11862-8cf9-11e3-ad57-00144feab7de.html

If your european 'partners' put as much effort into combatting corruption and graft as the did into preventing country that wants to leave from doing so then. But then they would lose out on the extra money they can make wouldn't they. Tell me, just how many businesses have gone bust because they couldn't afford the bribes and lost out on trade that would have kept them going?

[Barman]

So corruption in the EU is costing as much as the entire budget for the year and that is on top of the 5 billion Euro VAT fraud on carbon trading (that we know of, God knows just how much we are getting scammed overall). And we only know this now because they in their 'wisdom' decided to investigate the issue. The EU has been going for decades now and you are only just carrying out a token investigation regarding graft and bribery by officials, this is something that should have been in place and done properly from day one. Has it taken so long because of rampant incompetence and negligence or have those responsible for making sure this doesn't happen been enjoying their backhanders too much. Perhaps our imperious leaders in their ivory tower can tell us again why it is in our best interests to be a part of this corrupt unelected fraudulent rancid pile of shite.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/28f11862-8cf9-11e3-ad57-00144feab7de.html

If your european 'partners' put as much effort into combatting corruption and graft as the did into preventing country that wants to leave from doing so then. But then they would lose out on the extra money they can make wouldn't they. Tell me, just how many businesses have gone bust because they couldn't afford the bribes and lost out on trade that would have kept them going?

 

[Steve]

So corruption in the EU is costing as much as the entire budget for the year and that is on top of the 5 billion Euro VAT fraud on carbon trading (that we know of, God knows just how much we are getting scammed overall). And we only know this now because they in their 'wisdom' decided to investigate the issue. The EU has been going for decades now and you are only just carrying out a token investigation regarding graft and bribery by officials, this is something that should have been in place and done properly from day one. Has it taken so long because of rampant incompetence and negligence or have those responsible for making sure this doesn't happen been enjoying their backhanders too much. Perhaps our imperious leaders in their ivory tower can tell us again why it is in our best interests to be a part of this corrupt unelected fraudulent rancid pile of shite.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/28f11862-8cf9-11e3-ad57-00144feab7de.html

If your european 'partners' put as much effort into combatting corruption and graft as the did into preventing country that wants to leave from doing so then. But then they would lose out on the extra money they can make wouldn't they. Tell me, just how many businesses have gone bust because they couldn't afford the bribes and lost out on trade that would have kept them going?

Can't read your link Meister as it's a subscription site

Have read the key parts of the report though and the FT headline is wrong.  It reports on corruption in the states that make up the EU, not in the EU itself.  The EU investigators would not be able to investigate wider.

Some interesting snippets

"Around three quarters of Europeans (73 %) say that bribery and the use of connections is often the easiest way of obtaining certain public services in their country. This belief is most widespread in Greece (93 %), Cyprus (92 %), Slovakia and Croatia (89 % in each). "

"In the case of the UK, only 5 persons out of 1115 were  expected to pay a bribe (less than 1 %), showing the best result in all Europe; nevertheless, the perception data show that 64 % of UK respondents think corruption is widespread in the country (the EU average is 74 %)."


http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/e-library/documents/policies/organized-crime-and-human-trafficking/corruption/docs/acr_2014_en.pdf

[Barman]

[Baldy]