Author Topic: Brexit again  (Read 2775 times)

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Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #105 on: September 11, 2019, 06:18:53 PM »
Oh dear:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

'Boris Johnson’s suspension of the UK Parliament is unlawful, Scotland’s highest civil court has ruled.'

I wonder why they chose the clearly unbiased Scottish civil court to contest this

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/139/590x/secondary/brexit-news-2049759.webp?r=1568144511627

Nope, can't think of a reason at all.
Well the actual reason was that Scottish Courts of Session weren't on holiday when the so called Cherry action started (their High Court doesn't do summer adjournments)

But it's weird that two courts can give diametrically opposed rulings.  #10 might need to ponder how near they came to losing the Wilson and Others v The Prime Minister and Bojo's previous Misconduct in Public Office cases because the get outs in each of those don't apply in this case

It's definite Popcorn: time
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Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #106 on: September 11, 2019, 11:02:50 PM »
Oh dear:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

'Boris Johnson’s suspension of the UK Parliament is unlawful, Scotland’s highest civil court has ruled.'

I wonder why they chose the clearly unbiased Scottish civil court to contest this

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/139/590x/secondary/brexit-news-2049759.webp?r=1568144511627

Nope, can't think of a reason at all.
Well the actual reason was that Scottish Courts of Session weren't on holiday when the so called Cherry action started (their High Court doesn't do summer adjournments)

But it's weird that two courts can give diametrically opposed rulings.  #10 might need to ponder how near they came to losing the Wilson and Others v The Prime Minister and Bojo's previous Misconduct in Public Office cases because the get outs in each of those don't apply in this case

It's definite Popcorn: time

David Starkey brought up an interesting point earlier, all of the remainer MP's who are protesting actions taken against the constitution are guilty of the exact same thing as they are trying to overturn the result of a democratically held referendum because they don't agree with the way the electorate voted. I can see that making for an interesting counter argument in the courts, especially as it could be used to justify the prorouging.
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Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #107 on: September 12, 2019, 04:20:40 AM »
Isn't the Scottish legal system different to that in England and therefore more likely to give the result they desired...?

So it is almost definitely going to be defeated when it returns to the High Court (or whatever) in London...?

Who is paying for this nonsense...?

I presume the British taxpayer is getting hosed for the defence costs...?
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Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #108 on: September 12, 2019, 09:38:36 AM »
The action is crowd funded (I didn't chip in on this one both because I didn't think it stood much chance and the whole thing is Cummings yet again playing his opponents into action that helps him)

Government pays its own costs and has refused to pay costs for the other side in the numerous cases that it has lost on Brexit. 



As for Meister's question, if the referendum had constitutional import then a rerun would have been ordered by now (see Wilson and Others v Prime Minister) but it doesn't so the constitutional point that dominates is that no parliament can bind a successor.
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Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #109 on: September 12, 2019, 09:43:25 AM »
The action is crowd funded (I didn't chip in on this one both because I didn't think it stood much chance and the whole thing is Cummings yet again playing his opponents into action that helps him)

Government pays its own costs and has refused to pay costs for the other side in the numerous cases that it has lost on Brexit. 



As for Meister's question, if the referendum had constitutional import then a rerun would have been ordered by now (see Wilson and Others v Prime Minister) but it doesn't so the constitutional point that dominates is that no parliament can bind a successor.

The taxpayer then...? ::)
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Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #110 on: September 12, 2019, 09:53:08 AM »
Well the government got us into this mess so yes they should pay their own costs and the public hold them accountable.  They could of course have a referendum on whether it should be so or government ministers that made it inevitable

Classic lie by gubberment minister Ben Wallace this morning "no one said it (Brexit) would be easy"  Oh yes they fucking did you lying clown Wallace.  Over and over.
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Offline Uncle Mort

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #111 on: September 12, 2019, 02:36:39 PM »

Classic lie by gubberment minister Ben Wallace this morning "no one said it (Brexit) would be easy"  Oh yes they fucking did you lying clown Wallace.  Over and over.

Having trouble trying to find anyone who said it would be easy.  Can you give me some pointers please.

Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #112 on: September 12, 2019, 03:50:50 PM »

Classic lie by gubberment minister Ben Wallace this morning "no one said it (Brexit) would be easy"  Oh yes they fucking did you lying clown Wallace.  Over and over.

Having trouble trying to find anyone who said it would be easy.  Can you give me some pointers please.

“Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.”  Liam Fox

“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.”  Michael Gove

“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.”   John Redwood

“Within two years – before negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete and therefore before anything material has changed – we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU"  David Davis

"After we Vote Leave, British businesses will trade freely with the EU"  Boris and the rest of the Vote Leave campaign board



They'll be more out there
Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #113 on: September 12, 2019, 05:02:09 PM »
And those statements would be true if (a)Verhofstad negotiated in good faith instead of ignoring WTO rules by demanding money for a trade agreement and trying to make an example of the UK so that other increasingly eurosceptic countries wouldn't follow suit and (b)the majority of parliament and Whitehall didn't decide to defy the results of a democratically held referendum and go out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK and finally (c)we hadn't been stitched up with a prime minister who is either completely incompetent or couldn't be more remain oriented if she had 'I love the EU' tattooed on her arse.

And before you say that May is not a remainer, Hanlon's razor can only be applied so many times before malice becomes a far more likely reason than incompetence.
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Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #114 on: September 12, 2019, 05:22:58 PM »
And those statements would be true if (a)Verhofstad negotiated in good faith instead of ignoring WTO rules by demanding money for a trade agreement and trying to make an example of the UK so that other increasingly eurosceptic countries wouldn't follow suit and (b)the majority of parliament and Whitehall didn't decide to defy the results of a democratically held referendum and go out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK and finally (c)we hadn't been stitched up with a prime minister who is either completely incompetent or couldn't be more remain oriented if she had 'I love the EU' tattooed on her arse.

And before you say that May is not a remainer, Hanlon's razor can only be applied so many times before malice becomes a far more likely reason than incompetence.

Precisely!

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Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #115 on: September 12, 2019, 05:38:56 PM »
And those statements would be true if (a)Verhofstad negotiated in good faith instead of ignoring WTO rules by demanding money for a trade agreement and trying to make an example of the UK so that other increasingly eurosceptic countries wouldn't follow suit and (b)the majority of parliament and Whitehall didn't decide to defy the results of a democratically held referendum and go out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK and finally (c)we hadn't been stitched up with a prime minister who is either completely incompetent or couldn't be more remain oriented if she had 'I love the EU' tattooed on her arse.

And before you say that May is not a remainer, Hanlon's razor can only be applied so many times before malice becomes a far more likely reason than incompetence.
The point at hand was the Defence Minister lying his arse off saying "no one said it would be easy"

Anyone who'd thought it through knew it wouldn't be.  You can't spend years saying the EU is a far and ugly wife and then expect them to be keen to do the ironing after the divorce.  The EU was always going to negotiate on behalf of their interests not ours
Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Barman

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #116 on: September 12, 2019, 05:42:18 PM »
And those statements would be true if (a)Verhofstad negotiated in good faith instead of ignoring WTO rules by demanding money for a trade agreement and trying to make an example of the UK so that other increasingly eurosceptic countries wouldn't follow suit and (b)the majority of parliament and Whitehall didn't decide to defy the results of a democratically held referendum and go out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK and finally (c)we hadn't been stitched up with a prime minister who is either completely incompetent or couldn't be more remain oriented if she had 'I love the EU' tattooed on her arse.

And before you say that May is not a remainer, Hanlon's razor can only be applied so many times before malice becomes a far more likely reason than incompetence.
The point at hand was the Defence Minister lying his arse off saying "no one said it would be easy"

Anyone who'd thought it through knew it wouldn't be.  You can't spend years saying the EU is a far and ugly wife and then expect them to be keen to do the ironing after the divorce.  The EU was always going to negotiate on behalf of their interests not ours

If they did that they'd want a FTA...

You know, cars, washing machines, wine, cheese, etc.  ;)
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Offline Steve

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #117 on: September 12, 2019, 06:00:37 PM »
And those statements would be true if (a)Verhofstad negotiated in good faith instead of ignoring WTO rules by demanding money for a trade agreement and trying to make an example of the UK so that other increasingly eurosceptic countries wouldn't follow suit and (b)the majority of parliament and Whitehall didn't decide to defy the results of a democratically held referendum and go out of their way to weaken the bargaining position of the UK and finally (c)we hadn't been stitched up with a prime minister who is either completely incompetent or couldn't be more remain oriented if she had 'I love the EU' tattooed on her arse.

And before you say that May is not a remainer, Hanlon's razor can only be applied so many times before malice becomes a far more likely reason than incompetence.
The point at hand was the Defence Minister lying his arse off saying "no one said it would be easy"

Anyone who'd thought it through knew it wouldn't be.  You can't spend years saying the EU is a far and ugly wife and then expect them to be keen to do the ironing after the divorce.  The EU was always going to negotiate on behalf of their interests not ours

If they did that they'd want a FTA...

You know, cars, washing machines, wine, cheese, etc.  ;)
It's a lose lose to both sides

They lose a foot, we lose a leg, guess who'll run faster.  But the real politik always was and still is if they folded to give the UK free access to the single market with no obligations then they'd lose everything, legs, arms, head as all the net contributing countries demanded same.  It just never ever was a credible end game. 

But our dishonest Defence Minister now seems to pretend 3 years later that that was made clear by Vote Leave leads at the time.  It certainly was not, exactly the opposite.  But then they needed to get that vote up from 10 million to 17 million didn't they

Well, whatever nevermind

Offline Uncle Mort

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #118 on: September 12, 2019, 08:54:24 PM »

Classic lie by gubberment minister Ben Wallace this morning "no one said it (Brexit) would be easy"  Oh yes they fucking did you lying clown Wallace.  Over and over.

Having trouble trying to find anyone who said it would be easy.  Can you give me some pointers please.

“Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.”  Liam Fox

“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.”  Michael Gove

“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.”   John Redwood

“Within two years – before negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete and therefore before anything material has changed – we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU"  David Davis

"After we Vote Leave, British businesses will trade freely with the EU"  Boris and the rest of the Vote Leave campaign board



They'll be more out there

Two mentions easy and they're prefaced with "should" and "can", not "will" or "would". Not exactly what you're implying.

Offline Uncle Mort

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Re: Brexit again
« Reply #119 on: September 12, 2019, 09:00:44 PM »
Thinking about it, I doubt anyone voting leave considered how easy or hard it would be, they just wanted out.