The Virtual Pub

Come Inside... => The Snug => Topic started by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 12:14:03 PM

Title: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 12:14:03 PM
Maths isn't and never has been my bestsest subject. noooo:

I've recently become registered to the VAT club, on the flat rate scheme, and accordingly I have to pay 7.5% of the VAT that I collect, only for the first year I only pay 6.5 %.
The downside is that I don't claim any VAT back unless it's a large purchase.
 I'm still going to be slightly 'up' at the end of the year though I estimate.

Anyway, to save me ringing the VAT office up, how the hell, and what is the formula for working out 6.5% of 15.0%. as I have to do my first return for the end of this month? confused:

It'll be another calculation in January when the VAT goes back up to 17.5%, but they haven't yet told me what I'm going to have to pay...problee 9% I'd have thought.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:15:17 PM
Where is Pastis when you need him?  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 12:18:03 PM
Where is Pastis when you need him?  noooo:

Is that your answer...another question? ::)

Snoops will know. He knows EVERYTHING!
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:18:41 PM
He knows all about VAT  ::)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 12:20:38 PM
He knows all about VAT  ::)

I don't need to know about VAT. I already know enough about it, I just need what is in essence a simple formula to work this percentage malarky out.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:21:49 PM
 Shrugs:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 14, 2009, 12:23:02 PM
TBH you have lost me completely. 6.5% of 15% of the cost price or 6.5% of the cost price?

In my days of calculating VAT it was simple to multiply the cost by 7/47 which gave you the 17.5% needed.

'fraid you will need to ask the nice VAT man to help. They were always willing to show us how to get it right when we had the pubs.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 12:23:15 PM
Shrugs:

Well thanks for your seemingly and well meaning positive input anyway. ::)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:24:52 PM
We all seem to be equally confused now  whacky115
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 12:26:27 PM
TBH you have lost me completely. 6.5% of 15% of the cost price or 6.5% of the cost price?

In my days of calculating VAT it was simple to multiply the cost by 7/47 which gave you the 17.5% needed.

'fraid you will need to ask the nice VAT man to help. They were always willing to show us how to get it right when we had the pubs.

6.5% of the VAT I collect, therefore 6.5% of 15% currently.

I'd better ring them to make sure I get it right, or they'll be smashing me door down at 00:01 on 01/01/10 to arrest me and then immediate execution no doubt. ::)

You DO NOT mess about with the VAT man.  noooo:
Ignorance is no excuse, so I've got to get it right, first time.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 14, 2009, 12:30:37 PM
TBH you have lost me completely. 6.5% of 15% of the cost price or 6.5% of the cost price?

In my days of calculating VAT it was simple to multiply the cost by 7/47 which gave you the 17.5% needed.

'fraid you will need to ask the nice VAT man to help. They were always willing to show us how to get it right when we had the pubs.

6.5% of the VAT I collect, therefore 6.5% of 15% currently.

I'd better ring them to make sure I get it right, or they'll be smashing me door down at 00:01 on 01/01/10 to arrest me and then immidiate execution no doubt. ::)

It might be for the best.
I can't quite see them letting you charge someone £100 + VAT @15% making a total of £115 and them only wanting you to hand over £0.98p

6.5% of £15 being 97.5p it is rounded up to 98p for VAT purposes
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 14, 2009, 12:31:01 PM
Where is Pastis when you need him?  noooo:

Same place as he is when you don't need him.

6.5% of 15% is 0.975% of the original cost (excluding VAT)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:32:07 PM
No no no. Quite wrong. If he does what you say he will deffo be arrested  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 14, 2009, 12:34:17 PM
Oi ! I've been doing VAT returns for years.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 14, 2009, 12:35:07 PM
And I've got 3 maths O Levels.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:35:42 PM
Why 3?  rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 14, 2009, 12:37:22 PM
Oi ! I've been doing VAT returns for years.

Then I am sure you'll agree that allowing Growler to pocket ?14.02 for every ?15 in VAT he takes is, to say the least, unlikely.

Why 3?  rubschin:

He did the Irish exam ...... To be sure, to be sure. ;)












Collar, lead, WALKIES!
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:38:36 PM
Growler is not going to be happy about all this misleading advice  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 14, 2009, 12:39:48 PM
 Banghead There was nothing misleading about my advice which was "Phone the VATman and check" cussing:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:41:26 PM
Yes, but then Growler will argue with him and get arrested  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 14, 2009, 12:44:27 PM
Growler doesn't wander around gratuitously putting his foot in it like some people I could mention.  whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:44:59 PM
 redface:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 14, 2009, 12:48:46 PM
Oi ! I've been doing VAT returns for years.

Then I am sure you'll agree that allowing Growler to pocket ?14.02 for every ?15 in VAT he takes is, to say the least, unlikely.


But on the flat rate scheme he's not reclaiming VAT on purchases (except, as he said, on unusually large items) so the calculation is an accepted difference between sales vat and purchase vat due back to the HMRC.


3 maths O Levels:

Pure

Applied

Additional
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Miss Demeanour on December 14, 2009, 12:50:59 PM
 worthy:

Numbers are my enemy ...they never tell me what I want to hear  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 12:51:31 PM
Growler doesn't wander around gratuitously putting his foot in it like some people I could mention.  whistle:

Correct. I'll ring the VAT man up, and I'll be exceedingly polite.

I don't claim any VAT back that I've been charged in connection with my business, I just simply pay 6.5% VAT collected instead of 15%, so they gain a bit by not paying me what they owe me in theory, but I only pay them 6.5% of VAT collected instead of 15% to compensate.
I don't want 6.5% of 15% but 6.5% of VAT collected.

Look, I understand it, but it's the working out that's baffling me.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:52:23 PM
This thread has given me a headache  cussing:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 14, 2009, 12:52:45 PM
Maths isn't and never has been my bestsest subject. noooo:

I've recently become registered to the VAT club, on the flat rate scheme, and accordingly I have to pay 7.5% of the VAT that I collect, only for the first year I only pay 6.5 %.
The downside is that I don't claim any VAT back unless it's a large purchase.
 I'm still going to be slightly 'up' at the end of the year though I estimate.

Anyway, to save me ringing the VAT office up, how the hell, and what is the formula for working out 6.5% of 15.0%. as I have to do my first return for the end of this month? confused:

It'll be another calculation in January when the VAT goes back up to 17.5%, but they haven't yet told me what I'm going to have to pay...problee 9% I'd have thought.

Okay... if I understand correctly...  rubschin:

if the gross amount you bill is ?1,000

Divide by 115 and times 100 to find the VAT... ie, the net amount is ?869.56 so the 15% VAT is ?1,000 minus ?869.56 or ?130.44

Then, you just need to find 6.5% of ?130.44 - correct?

?130.44 divided by 100 and times 6.5 makes ?8.48 (rounded up).

And I see why you get to pocket the rest as you stated you can't claim VAT back on your purchases...
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 12:54:17 PM
Oh my head  surrender:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 14, 2009, 12:58:18 PM
Ah, so it's not 6.5% of 15% but 6.5% VAT repayable.  That's just under half, 43.33% recurring of the VAT collected.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 12:59:12 PM
Maths isn't and never has been my bestsest subject. noooo:

I've recently become registered to the VAT club, on the flat rate scheme, and accordingly I have to pay 7.5% of the VAT that I collect, only for the first year I only pay 6.5 %.
The downside is that I don't claim any VAT back unless it's a large purchase.
 I'm still going to be slightly 'up' at the end of the year though I estimate.

Anyway, to save me ringing the VAT office up, how the hell, and what is the formula for working out 6.5% of 15.0%. as I have to do my first return for the end of this month? confused:

It'll be another calculation in January when the VAT goes back up to 17.5%, but they haven't yet told me what I'm going to have to pay...problee 9% I'd have thought.



?130.44 divided by 100 and times 6.5 makes ?8.48 (rounded up).



That can't be right surely? rubschin:
It must be just under half of what I'd pay if the full 15% was due, surely? Roughly 60 instead of 130 pounds...me pound symbol has gone AWOL again. ::)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 01:00:25 PM
Ah, so it's not 6.5% of 15% but 6.5% VAT repayable.  That's just under half, 43.33% recurring of the VAT collected.

THAT'S IT!!!  happy088............

I think?  rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 14, 2009, 01:01:56 PM
Maths isn't and never has been my bestsest subject. noooo:

I've recently become registered to the VAT club, on the flat rate scheme, and accordingly I have to pay 7.5% of the VAT that I collect, only for the first year I only pay 6.5 %.
The downside is that I don't claim any VAT back unless it's a large purchase.
 I'm still going to be slightly 'up' at the end of the year though I estimate.

Anyway, to save me ringing the VAT office up, how the hell, and what is the formula for working out 6.5% of 15.0%. as I have to do my first return for the end of this month? confused:

It'll be another calculation in January when the VAT goes back up to 17.5%, but they haven't yet told me what I'm going to have to pay...problee 9% I'd have thought.



?130.44 divided by 100 and times 6.5 makes ?8.48 (rounded up).



That can't be right surely? rubschin:
It must be just under half of what I'd pay if the full 15% was due, surely? Roughly 60 instead of 130 pounds...me pound symbol has gone AWOL again. ::)

It depends if you are paying 6.5% of the full amount or 6.5% of the VAT amount...

If you are saying that you only pay VAT at 6.5% then it is a different calculation....
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 01:02:27 PM
This is not going well, is it?
 Popcorn:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 14, 2009, 01:03:28 PM
Maths isn't and never has been my bestsest subject. noooo:

I've recently become registered to the VAT club, on the flat rate scheme, and accordingly I have to pay 7.5% of the VAT that I collect, only for the first year I only pay 6.5 %.
The downside is that I don't claim any VAT back unless it's a large purchase.
 I'm still going to be slightly 'up' at the end of the year though I estimate.

Anyway, to save me ringing the VAT office up, how the hell, and what is the formula for working out 6.5% of 15.0%. as I have to do my first return for the end of this month? confused:

It'll be another calculation in January when the VAT goes back up to 17.5%, but they haven't yet told me what I'm going to have to pay...problee 9% I'd have thought.


?130.44 divided by 100 and times 6.5 makes ?8.48 (rounded up).




That can't be right surely? rubschin:
It must be just under half of what I'd pay if the full 15% was due, surely? Roughly 60 instead of 130 pounds...me pound symbol has gone AWOL again. ::)

Exactly my point. BM is right if the assumption that you pay only 6.5% of the total VAT Payable is correct BUT if you are supposed to pay VAT at 6.5% on the total charged (as opposed to 15%) then the figure would indeed be nearer half the 15% amount.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 01:15:25 PM
U.M. is on the same track here.
6.5% VAT payable to the VAT man , that's has been collected... invoiced but not yet received, that's another scheme I'm on... NOT 6.5% of 15% as that would be ridiculously minimal.

Simpes really, but I just need to werk out the figure, and for that i simply need a probably simple but so far illusive formula.

For instance, at the current rate, if I receive 15 pounds VAT from one of my customers, I onl pay the VAT man 6.50 of it, BUT for instance, I don't claim back 15 pounds VAT paid by me  if I purchase something for 100 pounds + #15 VAT  in connection with my business.

Where's me ####### sign gone! Banghead
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 01:17:14 PM
Pastis is here.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 14, 2009, 01:19:21 PM
U.M. is on the same track here.
6.5% VAT payable to the VAT man , that's has been collected... invoiced but not yet received, that's another scheme I'm on... NOT 6.5% of 15% as that would be ridiculously minimal.

Simpes really, but I just need to werk out the figure, and for that i simply need a probably simple but so far illusive formula.

Like the old X 7/47.
Can't find one on the www so perhaps the VATman enquiry desk could give it to you ~ they are the ones that supplied the 7/47 calculation saying that it was more accurate than using a calculator to +17.5%
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 14, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
So, Growler sell a widget for ?100, charges VAT @ 15% and so the customer pays Growler ?115.

Growler owes HMRC 6.5% VAT which on ?100 is ?6.50. But if he applies 6.5% to the amount received of ?115 that's ?7.48 so he needs to know ?6.50 as a percentage of ?115. That is 5.65%. Thus Growler needs to pay HMRC 5.65% of the monies received.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 01:36:54 PM
But he doesn't sell widgets  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 01:38:51 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 01:41:45 PM
But he doesn't sell widgets  noooo:

I do a neat little number in JCB hire and patio excavation though.  eveilgrin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 01:59:03 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:

Oh dear. I know you mean well Pasties, and for that I thank you, but I'm struggling to get ny head around that lot.
I'll keep reading it and it might suddenly click. rubschin:

Quite simply, on this scheme, if I collect 100 pounds VAT, I only pay the VAT man 65 pounds fifty pence of it, and the remainder of it (34.50 ) is set against what I haven't claimed for in VATable purchases in connection with my business.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 02:06:59 PM
This is like watching a car crash in slow motion  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 02:08:11 PM
As I read it if you're on the 6.5% rate then that's what you apply on your invoices to your customers. Yes? When you come to fill in your VAT form that's just totalling up all the VAT you've collected in the time frame.

The trickier bit (which is why I found the VAT fraction tables) is how you calculate what you can reclaim during the period and for your 6.5% rate the fraction is 13/213 i.e. multiply the bill total by 13, divide by 213 and you'll have the amount you can reclaim.

Of course, I could have got it all wrong ...  rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:08:59 PM
Have I just sorted this?

Simply multiply the amount of VAT received by 6.5%/

100 pounds (VAT received from a customer) X 6.5% = 6.5, move the decimal point over and voila, 65 pounds!!! eeek:

Is that right? rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 02:10:27 PM
No, that's not right   noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pirate on December 14, 2009, 02:11:00 PM
Therefore the square on the hypotenuse = the sum of the squares on the other two sides:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 14, 2009, 02:11:07 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:

Oh dear. I know you mean well Pasties, and for that I thank you, but I'm struggling to get ny head around that lot.
I'll keep reading it and it might suddenly click. rubschin:

Quite simply, on this scheme, if I collect 100 pounds VAT, I only pay the VAT man 65 pounds fifty pence of it, and the remainder of it (34.50 ) is set against what I haven't claimed for in VATable purchases in connection with my business.

Lets just clarify one thing!

If you sell ?100 worth of stuff, you still charge the customers ?115 right?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:11:17 PM
As I read it if you're on the 6.5% rate then that's what you apply on your invoices to your customers. Yes? When you come to fill in your VAT form that's just totalling up all the VAT you've collected in the time frame.

The trickier bit (which is why I found the VAT fraction tables) is how you calculate what you can reclaim during the period and for your 6.5% rate the fraction is 13/213 i.e. multiply the bill total by 13, divide by 213 and you'll have the amount you can reclaim.

Of course, I could have got it all wrong ...  rubschin:

No. I still charge my customers the full 15% but only give the VAT man 6.5% of the VAT back, ie, 65 pounds out of 100 pounds received.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 02:12:06 PM
Will this torture never end  surrender:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 14, 2009, 02:12:28 PM
I think he should buy a canoe...  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:12:38 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:

Oh dear. I know you mean well Pasties, and for that I thank you, but I'm struggling to get ny head around that lot.
I'll keep reading it and it might suddenly click. rubschin:

Quite simply, on this scheme, if I collect 100 pounds VAT, I only pay the VAT man 65 pounds fifty pence of it, and the remainder of it (34.50 ) is set against what I haven't claimed for in VATable purchases in connection with my business.

Lets just clarify one thing!

If you sell ?100 worth of stuff, you still charge the customers ?115 right?

Yes.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 14, 2009, 02:13:34 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:

Oh dear. I know you mean well Pasties, and for that I thank you, but I'm struggling to get ny head around that lot.
I'll keep reading it and it might suddenly click. rubschin:

Quite simply, on this scheme, if I collect 100 pounds VAT, I only pay the VAT man 65 pounds fifty pence of it, and the remainder of it (34.50 ) is set against what I haven't claimed for in VATable purchases in connection with my business.

Lets just clarify one thing!

If you sell ?100 worth of stuff, you still charge the customers ?115 right?

Yes.

brilliant!

We are making progress like...  cloud9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:13:45 PM
I think he should buy a canoe...  noooo:

But would I be able to claim the VAT back though?  rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 02:14:42 PM
At the present rate of progress, no
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:16:07 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:

Oh dear. I know you mean well Pasties, and for that I thank you, but I'm struggling to get ny head around that lot.
I'll keep reading it and it might suddenly click. rubschin:

Quite simply, on this scheme, if I collect 100 pounds VAT, I only pay the VAT man 65 pounds fifty pence of it, and the remainder of it (34.50 ) is set against what I haven't claimed for in VATable purchases in connection with my business.

Lets just clarify one thing!

If you sell ?100 worth of stuff, you still charge the customers ?115 right?

Yes.

brilliant!

We are making progress like...  cloud9:

YES! Please god, try and understand me!! eeek:

I still charge the full VAT 15% whack, but only have to pay the VAT man back 6.5% VAT instead of 15%.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 02:17:05 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:

Oh dear. I know you mean well Pasties, and for that I thank you, but I'm struggling to get ny head around that lot.
I'll keep reading it and it might suddenly click. rubschin:

Quite simply, on this scheme, if I collect 100 pounds VAT, I only pay the VAT man 65 pounds fifty pence of it, and the remainder of it (34.50 ) is set against what I haven't claimed for in VATable purchases in connection with my business.

Lets just clarify one thing!

If you sell ?100 worth of stuff, you still charge the customers ?115 right?

Yes.

brilliant!

We are making progress like...  cloud9:

So, instead of giving the VAT man the ?15, you give him only ?6.50  razz:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 14, 2009, 02:17:31 PM
What was the question...?  rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:18:01 PM
Have I just sorted this?

Simply multiply the amount of VAT received by 6.5%/

100 pounds (VAT received from a customer) X 6.5% = 6.5, move the decimal point over and voila, 65 pounds!!! eeek:

Is that right? rubschin:

I'm pretty sure this calculation/formula of mine is correct, yes?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:18:47 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:

Oh dear. I know you mean well Pasties, and for that I thank you, but I'm struggling to get ny head around that lot.
I'll keep reading it and it might suddenly click. rubschin:

Quite simply, on this scheme, if I collect 100 pounds VAT, I only pay the VAT man 65 pounds fifty pence of it, and the remainder of it (34.50 ) is set against what I haven't claimed for in VATable purchases in connection with my business.

Lets just clarify one thing!

If you sell ?100 worth of stuff, you still charge the customers ?115 right?

Yes.

brilliant!

We are making progress like...  cloud9:

So, instead of giving the VAT man the ?15, you give him only ?6.50  razz:


EEEEEEYES!!! cloud9:

Taken 4 pages but I think we got there!!
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 02:20:39 PM
So, on all your invoices where you've applied 15% do another "quick" calculation applying 6.5% and there's your figure  cloud9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:21:58 PM
http://www.accountingissue.info/vat-calculate-percentage-fraction.html

Scroll down to the tables  whistle:

Oh dear. I know you mean well Pasties, and for that I thank you, but I'm struggling to get ny head around that lot.
I'll keep reading it and it might suddenly click. rubschin:

Quite simply, on this scheme, if I collect 100 pounds VAT, I only pay the VAT man 65 pounds fifty pence of it, and the remainder of it (34.50 ) is set against what I haven't claimed for in VATable purchases in connection with my business.

Lets just clarify one thing!

If you sell ?100 worth of stuff, you still charge the customers ?115 right?

Yes.

brilliant!

We are making progress like...  cloud9:

So, instead of giving the VAT man the ?15, you give him only ?6.50  razz:

Only thing is, THAT is less than half of the total, whereas my new found calculation would have ne paying MORE than half. confused:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 02:22:45 PM
This thread will be talked about for years to come  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:23:12 PM
I'm just nipping out to kill meself.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 02:25:54 PM
This thread will be talked about for years to come  noooo:

At this rate, this thread will still be being written in in years to come. ::)

Serously, I'm going out. Me 'ed is absolutely fudged now.
No wonder I hated maths so much at scoooell. Those mind blowingingly dreadful  lessons are all flooding back now. eeek:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 02:28:57 PM
What's this "new found calculation"? The VAT fraction 13/213 ?  That's for calculating what to claim back not for what you're applying.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 02:29:50 PM
I have utterly lost the plot here  surrender:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 02:31:36 PM
Where's Uncle Mort when you need him?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 02:41:00 PM

Only thing is, THAT is less than half of the total, whereas my new found calculation would have ne paying MORE than half. confused:

Less than half is right. 6.5 is less than half of 15; 43.3% in fact.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 02:42:32 PM
 Explode:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 14, 2009, 03:27:16 PM
I'm back! - been in a meeting.

Growler:

I assume you keep a separate VAT account in your books for the VAT on sales. Being on flat-rate you don't need to keep one for VAT on purchases although I would just to keep an eye on things.

What I would do is each month (or quarterly depending on when you do the returns) calculate 43.33% of the total of that account and send it to HMRC. The balance is yours.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 14, 2009, 03:47:38 PM
This thread will be talked about for years to come  noooo:
On topic after five pages tho...  rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 04:14:04 PM
I'm back! - been in a meeting.

Growler:

I assume you keep a separate VAT account in your books for the VAT on sales. Being on flat-rate you don't need to keep one for VAT on purchases although I would just to keep an eye on things.

What I would do is each month (or quarterly depending on when you do the returns) calculate 43.33% of the total of that account and send it to HMRC. The balance is yours.

 happy088
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 04:22:32 PM
Does this mean that this is finally over? I am a nervous wreck, like noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on December 14, 2009, 04:29:52 PM
Oh, I don't think so. Should be a few more pages worth in it. After all, Growler might be reluctant to abandon his new found calculation, like  razz:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 06:12:52 PM
This thread will be talked about for years to come  noooo:
On topic after five pages tho...  rubschin:

I know. Bloody incredible isn't it! eeek:
Hardly a post out of place...apart from Nick's rants, and my predictable ranting responses.


Look, I've been for a wet walk up me 'ill, and whilst thinking on me own it came to me, so no more worries like.  cloud9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 14, 2009, 07:16:24 PM
 happ096
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 07:23:58 PM
I really don't know what the hell was up with me this morning, really.  Shrugs:

Quite simply, I just calculate VAT @ 6.5 % (currently) on the total of all monies received before VAT, and send the VAT man that amount.
I think I must have been thinking i had to pay 6.5% of 15%, but that figure was coming out ridiculously low and thus causing me great consternation and gross bafflement.

Apologies and thanks for all the helpful input anyway. cloud9:

Amazing what a blast up 'me 'ill' can do ey? cloud9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 07:41:56 PM
So this whole nervewracking thread was a total waste of time  cussing: cussing: cussing:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 07:44:57 PM
So this whole nervewracking thread was a total waste of time  cussing: cussing: cussing:

No. It brought us all together into a warm huddle of helpful friendship.  cloud9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Miss Demeanour on December 14, 2009, 07:45:55 PM
It hurt my head - as you can see by my lack of comments  lol:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 14, 2009, 08:07:24 PM
It hurt my head - as you can see by my lack of comments  lol:

Mine was buzzing too. That's why I HAD to get out.
Within 2 minutes up 'me 'ill, it all became clear, unlike the pea souper and drizzle I was walking through. ::)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Miss Demeanour on December 14, 2009, 08:18:16 PM
Whatever works to clear the head...... cloud9:

I had the most mind boggling meeting this afternoon - bloke talking at me for an hour and a half in jingo lingo and Americanisms at a speed of words that meant I was only able to catch about one in three of them.

Hadn't got a feckin clue until the end he handed me a whole heap of documents and said I had 2 days to complete them  noooo:

They are sitting on my desk at home now  . I am reviewing my options

(a) paper aeroplanes
(b) toilet paper
(c) wrapping paper
(d) Christmas decs
(e) loft insulation

The possibilities are endless  whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2009, 08:20:17 PM
Newham council appears to be paying me to read internal documents that no one in the Council seems to understand.

I don't understand them either, but as no one there has read them I can write  a fictitious but convincing report  angel1
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 31, 2009, 01:30:54 PM
Well the rate of VAT is about to change. I imagine Growler will have to do a whole new lot of sums now  whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Miss Demeanour on December 31, 2009, 01:49:44 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Please don't start this again  sad24:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 31, 2009, 01:51:14 PM
He is bound to need help  angel1
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 31, 2009, 01:56:14 PM
Share your accountant with him  cussing:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 31, 2009, 02:13:27 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Please don't start this again  sad24:

Why not?
Fantastic entertainment.

Think I finally got it right anyway. happy088

Total sales + 15% + 5.5%, the 5.5% the bit that is payable, less the vat incured on my new van, but ONLY if its total value BEFORE vat was over ?2000, anything UNDER ?2000 purchase price for start up reasons HAS to be claimed on the first vat return only, but anything OVER ?2000 purchase price exc. vat can be claimed for anytime in the future.
Have I made that quite clear do you think? rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 31, 2009, 02:16:22 PM
And the square on the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares on the other two sides  whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on December 31, 2009, 02:16:48 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Please don't start this again  sad24:

Why not?
Fantastic entertainment.

Think I finally got it right anyway. happy088

Total sales + 15% + 5.5%, the 5.5% the bit that is payable, less the vat incured on my new van, but ONLY if its total value BEFORE vat was over ?2000, anything UNDER ?2000 purchase price for start up reasons HAS to be claimed on the first vat return only, but anything OVER ?2000 purchase price exc. vat can be claimed for anytime in the future.
Have I made that quite clear do you think? rubschin:


Except it is 17?% from tomorrer like...  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 31, 2009, 02:18:30 PM
Quite so BM.  More pain beckons  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 31, 2009, 02:18:42 PM
...oh yes, and it all changes again tomorrow apparently due to the increase of vat to 17.5%

Seems I will have to pay an increased 6.5% on all sales INC vat @17.5%, but only until the end of November, when MY vat payable will go up to 7.5%...apparently.

Simples really in'it?

Any questions?
Please don't hestate to ask the vat guru of the pub, thank you. Prefewr Glenfidich though tbqath. cloud9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 31, 2009, 02:20:38 PM
I think you will find that is wrong  angel1
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 31, 2009, 02:22:46 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Please don't start this again  sad24:

Why not?
Fantastic entertainment.

Think I finally got it right anyway. happy088

Total sales + 15% + 5.5%, the 5.5% the bit that is payable, less the vat incured on my new van, but ONLY if its total value BEFORE vat was over ?2000, anything UNDER ?2000 purchase price for start up reasons HAS to be claimed on the first vat return only, but anything OVER ?2000 purchase price exc. vat can be claimed for anytime in the future.
Have I made that quite clear do you think? rubschin:


Except it is 17?% from tomorrer like...  noooo:

Ahhhhh, no you see. All vat returns...as far as I know...were sent out for completion BEFORE the old rate is re-introduced again tomorrow, so EVERYTHING on the vat return will be at 15%. New vat 1/4 starts tomorrow, even though in my case it wasn't actyually due to start until March1st.
That betterer now ey?

Good job I've got a well clear and mathmatical 'ed ey?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 31, 2009, 02:25:01 PM
I think you will find that is wrong  angel1

I think you'll find that it is YOU that is wrong, cus you see, I RANG THE VAT OFFICE UP TO CLARIFY EVERYTHING YESTERDAY, so up yours Charlie. Finger:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 31, 2009, 02:25:40 PM
They have misled you I fear. \The situation is far more complex than you realise
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 31, 2009, 02:28:32 PM
They have misled you I fear. \The situation is far more complex than you realise

You'd luv that wouldn't you, ey, wouldn't you?  ::)

What exactly is it that you don't seem to be grasping ey, what...exactly like?

Re-read me posts. They do actually make sense to a normal person. whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 31, 2009, 02:32:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnfKmNRfLYU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnfKmNRfLYU)   whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 31, 2009, 02:40:52 PM
VAT ought to be simple.

Charging tax on whatever you spend is not a complex idea and the principle, under various names, has been around for a very long time and I personally think it a fairer system than taxing what we earn. The more you spend the more tax you pay makes sense and of course unless you earn you cannot spend. Those that choose to save have a good incentive as well. Save your cash and don't pay so much tax. Put VAT on everything and scrap income tax would be a really good idea ~ that way we all have a choice.
My objection to VAT is that the Government want anyone in business to act as an unpaid tax collector for them. cussing:

When we had the pubs I spent hours and hours doing the bloody VAT returns. Booze, like patrol and motor cars is one of those where you pay tax on tax. Alcohol "duty" is added to the cost price of the booze, then profit margin goes on and the whole is subject to VAT. That is nothing short of fvcking scandalous.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 31, 2009, 02:50:44 PM

My objection to VAT is that the Government want anyone in business to act as an unpaid tax collector for them. cussing:



Not only that...which is 100% correct of course, but the arse wipes now make you...the unpaid tax collector... pay the postage on the envelope to return the return too!

I was going to write OHMS on the top, but thought better of getting onto the wrong side of HM Customs and Excercise. noooo:
Bastards though all the same. evil:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 31, 2009, 02:51:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnfKmNRfLYU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnfKmNRfLYU)   whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 31, 2009, 03:04:16 PM

My objection to VAT is that the Government want anyone in business to act as an unpaid tax collector for them. cussing:



Not only that...which is 100% correct of course, but the arse wipes now make you...the unpaid tax collector... pay the postage on the envelope to return the return too!

I was going to write OHMS on the top, but thought better of getting onto the wrong side of HM Customs and Excercise. noooo:
Bastards though all the same. evil:

I once complained to a visiting VATman that I was expected to pay postage for them.
"You can always drop it in by hand" he smirked.

Like I am going to drive, at my expense, from Hampshire to your offices in Glasgow ...... you utter arsewipe  cussing:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 31, 2009, 03:09:56 PM
Could have sworn the envelope was pre-paid last time I was vat registered.  rubschin:

Maybe it wasn't, but then I can't understand why I wouldn't have kicked off about it if that WAS the case.
Most odd. I must be getting grumpier and picking up on these things now. ::)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on December 31, 2009, 03:11:39 PM
Post it with no stamp on  eveilgrin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 31, 2009, 03:13:13 PM
That was the same VAT man that told me I could claim a refund on the VAT for the half pint of shandy that I had bought him but had to pay the VAT on the drink I bought myself at the same time................. They are from another planet.alien
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on December 31, 2009, 03:30:38 PM
Post it with no stamp on  eveilgrin:

Yea, righ'on brother. ::)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on December 31, 2009, 03:43:30 PM
Post it with no stamp on  eveilgrin:

Yea, righ'on brother. ::)

Not if you want "Proof of delivery" you can't and it's a foolish thing to post a VAT return without making sure you get a signature for it.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 12:50:42 PM
Humblest apologies for bringing this popular thread up again like, but i need a little bit of simple help from you mathmaticians.

How do i work out the initial cost of my combined invoices BEFORE VAT?
So, to simplify that, for example, VAT received from customers that I've invoiced: ?153.75., what therefore was the invoice total BEFORE the VAT was added at 15%, and also 17.5% for invoices handed out after 01/01/10?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 12:59:25 PM
Not happy with the way I've worded that ^^

?1000 + VAT @15% = ?1150, yes?

Simple formula required for working out the price before VAT which is obviously ?1000.

Same required for the 17.5 % rate too.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 01:03:34 PM
If VAT was at 15% divide total by 115 and multiply the answer by 100. That should give you the price before VAT was added.

Same applies if VAT was at 17.5%. Divide by 117.5 and multiply by 100 to get the pre-vat cost.

So ?153.75 divided by 115 = ?1.3369565

?1.3369565 multiplied by 100 = ?133.69565

Double check
?133.69565 + 15% = ?153.74999 which rounds up to ?153.75

Same sum but @ 17.5%

?153.75 divided by 117.5 = ?1.3085106

?1.3085106 multiplied by 100 = ?130.85106

Double check
?130.85106 + 17.5% = ?153.74999 which rounds up to ?153.75
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 01:05:12 PM
I was just about to say that...  evil:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:05:45 PM
Thank's Snoops. It's all coming back to me now from the last time I was VAT registered 6 years ago.

I'm sure MD will appreciate this too. lol:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:06:27 PM
I was just about to say that...  evil:

Yea, righ'on brother! noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 01:09:28 PM
I was just about to say that...  evil:

Yea, righ'on brother! noooo:

I bloody was!  cussing:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:15:03 PM
Hang on, no. It's not working.
I've got a total VAT figure only here, and I need to work out what the cost was before the VAT was added.

You're assuming I've got a figure that's the total INCLUDING VAT. I've only got the VAT total that I've received from my cussies.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:16:03 PM
I was just about to say that...  evil:

Yea, righ'on brother! noooo:

I bloody was!  cussing:

Really? rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 01:17:27 PM
Hang on, no. It's not working.
I've got a VAT figure only here, and I need to work out what the cost was before the VAT was added.

You're assuming I've got a figure that's the total INCLUDING VAT. I've only got the VAT total that I've received from my cussies.

Don't understand...

you said this: -

Quote
?1000 + VAT @15% = ?1150, yes?

Simple formula required for working out the price before VAT which is obviously ?1000.

Same required for the 17.5 % rate too.

Which is worked out the way Snoopy explained....
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 25, 2010, 01:18:53 PM
The pain begins again  cussing:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:21:50 PM
The pain begins again  cussing:

It's fun! lol:

OK.
I've got ?15 here (VAT received)
How do I work out what the invoice was before I added that VAT.

Same goes for another ?17.50 that I've got (17.5% VAT charged in this case)

Obviously the answers are simply ?100 in both cases, but what's the formula for working it out?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 25, 2010, 01:26:05 PM
 Snoopysick:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 01:26:17 PM
Hang on, no. It's not working.
I've got a total VAT figure only here, and I need to work out what the cost was before the VAT was added.

You're assuming I've got a figure that's the total INCLUDING VAT. I've only got the VAT total that I've received from my cussies.

Ah! Sorry

 If I may say so your book keeping is a bit of a mess.

Surely you price a job, write an invoice (two copies) showing the price and add VAT so the invoice shows both pre and apres VAT totals.

All this working backwards from only one figure is guaranteed to cock up.

I know that's where you are at but for the future ..........................?

Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Miss Demeanour on March 25, 2010, 01:26:49 PM
NOOOOooooo   sad24:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 25, 2010, 01:27:09 PM
 angry041: angry041: angry041: angry041: angry041: angry041:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pirate on March 25, 2010, 01:27:22 PM
This might help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfq5kju627c
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:35:30 PM
Hang on, no. It's not working.
I've got a total VAT figure only here, and I need to work out what the cost was before the VAT was added.

You're assuming I've got a figure that's the total INCLUDING VAT. I've only got the VAT total that I've received from my cussies.

Ah! Sorry

 If I may say so your book keeping is a bit of a mess.

Surely you price a job, write an invoice (two copies) showing the price and add VAT so the invoice shows both pre and apres VAT totals.

All this working backwards from only one figure is guaranteed to cock up.

I know that's where you are at but for the future ..........................?



Yea, I know. cry:
I've spent hours working out who's paid me over the last 4 months, and just adding the VAT paid figures up.
I should really have added up the invoices paid before VAT, and then it would have been simpler like wouldn't it...I think?

So, is there no formula for working the VAT backwards to find the cost before VAT then?
Have I got to go back to me books and paying in book to add everything up again before VAT, and then simply mutiply by 15% and 17.5% to double check the VAT received matches the all the paymants received?

Have I made that clear enough do you think? rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 01:37:15 PM
Hang on, no. It's not working.
I've got a total VAT figure only here, and I need to work out what the cost was before the VAT was added.

You're assuming I've got a figure that's the total INCLUDING VAT. I've only got the VAT total that I've received from my cussies.

Ah! Sorry

 If I may say so your book keeping is a bit of a mess.

Surely you price a job, write an invoice (two copies) showing the price and add VAT so the invoice shows both pre and apres VAT totals.

All this working backwards from only one figure is guaranteed to cock up.

I know that's where you are at but for the future ..........................?



Yea, I know. cry:
I've spent hours working out who's paid me over the last 4 months, and just adding the VAT paid figures up.
I should really have added up the invoices paid before VAT, and then it would have been simpler like wouldn't it...I think?

So, is there no formula for working the VAT backwards to find the cost before VAT then?
Have I got to go back to me books and paying in book to add everything up again before VAT, and then simply mutiply by 15% and 17.5% to double check the VAT received matches the all the paymants received?

Have I made that clear enough do you think? rubschin:

Why don't you type the numbers into a spreadsheet... you can do what you like with them then...  happy088
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 01:38:30 PM
Hang on, no. It's not working.
I've got a total VAT figure only here, and I need to work out what the cost was before the VAT was added.

You're assuming I've got a figure that's the total INCLUDING VAT. I've only got the VAT total that I've received from my cussies.

Ah! Sorry

 If I may say so your book keeping is a bit of a mess.

Surely you price a job, write an invoice (two copies) showing the price and add VAT so the invoice shows both pre and apres VAT totals.

All this working backwards from only one figure is guaranteed to cock up.

I know that's where you are at but for the future ..........................?



Yea, I know. cry:
I've spent hours working out who's paid me over the last 4 months, and just adding the VAT paid figures up.
I should really have added up the invoices paid before VAT, and then it would have been simpler like wouldn't it...I think?

So, is there no formula for working the VAT backwards to find the cost before VAT then?
Have I got to go back to me books and paying in book to add everything up again before VAT, and then simply mutiply by 15% and 17.5% to double check the VAT received matches the all the paymants received?

Have I made that clear enough do you think? rubschin:

Yes ~ clear as mud

And yes ~ I rather think you do need to add up the other totals as well.

Anything else is bound to end in disaster. Sorry.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:39:34 PM
This might help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfq5kju627c

 happy001
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 01:40:42 PM

Why don't you type the numbers into a spreadsheet... you can do what you like with them then...  happy088

Easy for you to say from that distance. Some of us are within range.

scared:

Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:43:58 PM
Hang on, no. It's not working.
I've got a total VAT figure only here, and I need to work out what the cost was before the VAT was added.

You're assuming I've got a figure that's the total INCLUDING VAT. I've only got the VAT total that I've received from my cussies.

Ah! Sorry

 If I may say so your book keeping is a bit of a mess.

Surely you price a job, write an invoice (two copies) showing the price and add VAT so the invoice shows both pre and apres VAT totals.

All this working backwards from only one figure is guaranteed to cock up.

I know that's where you are at but for the future ..........................?



Yea, I know. cry:
I've spent hours working out who's paid me over the last 4 months, and just adding the VAT paid figures up.
I should really have added up the invoices paid before VAT, and then it would have been simpler like wouldn't it...I think?

So, is there no formula for working the VAT backwards to find the cost before VAT then?
Have I got to go back to me books and paying in book to add everything up again before VAT, and then simply mutiply by 15% and 17.5% to double check the VAT received matches the all the paymants received?

Have I made that clear enough do you think? rubschin:

Why don't you type the numbers into a spreadsheet... you can do what you like with them then...  happy088

Ey?

Is that some sort of digitalisation scheme for anna log maths then?

It should be dead simple this, really.

?115 inc VAT has ?15 of VAT in it if it the ?100 was charged at 15% VAT, yes?
So, I've now got a sum of ?15 in me hand...cash to make it easier like.
How do I simply work out using a formula what the price was before I charged the VAT, which as we all know was ?100.
It's just the formula i need.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 01:49:33 PM
In theory ?15 represents the VAT@15% so divide it by 15 and multiply by 100.

?15 divided by 15=?1

?1x100 = ?100.

Total bill should then have been ?115.

Let's try it with ?153.75 being the VAT collected at 15%

?153.75 divided by 15 = ?10.25

?10.25 x 100 = ?1025.00

Total bill should then have been ?1178.75
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 25, 2010, 01:54:30 PM
In theory ?15 represents the VAT@15% so divide it by 15 and multiply by 100.

?15 divided by 15=?1

?1x100 = ?100.

Total bill should then have been ?115.

Let's try it with ?153.75 being the VAT collected at 15%

?153.75 divided by 15 = ?10.25

?10.25 x 100 = ?1025.00

Total bill should then have been ?1178.75

Yup. I think that works. Got to go out but will resume this fun tax collecting and workings out later.

Tax needn't be taxing ey? ::)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 25, 2010, 01:55:20 PM
 angry041: angry041: angry041: angry041: angry041: angry041:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 01:56:41 PM
In theory ?15 represents the VAT@15% so divide it by 15 and multiply by 100.

?15 divided by 15=?1

?1x100 = ?100.

Total bill should then have been ?115.

Let's try it with ?153.75 being the VAT collected at 15%

?153.75 divided by 15 = ?10.25

?10.25 x 100 = ?1025.00

Total bill should then have been ?1178.75

Quite so Snoopy...

A spreadsheet with the pre VAt amount, VAT, add totals would allow you to automatically add them all up and cross check...

As Snoopy points out any other way simply won't work and the VAT man will be down on you like several tonnes of stolen hub caps...
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 25, 2010, 01:59:51 PM
 bs: cussing: cussing: cussing: cussing: cussing: cussing: cussing:

Growler is now, and as usual, confuzzled  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 02:03:45 PM
In theory ?15 represents the VAT@15% so divide it by 15 and multiply by 100.

?15 divided by 15=?1

?1x100 = ?100.

Total bill should then have been ?115.

Let's try it with ?153.75 being the VAT collected at 15%

?153.75 divided by 15 = ?10.25

?10.25 x 100 = ?1025.00

Total bill should then have been ?1178.75

Quite so Snoopy...

A spreadsheet with the pre VAt amount, VAT, add totals would allow you to automatically add them all up and cross check...

As Snoopy points out any other way simply won't work and the VAT man will be down on you like several tonnes of stolen hub caps...

 I do the accounts for a number of charities locally and struggle to get Excel to work. No matter how many times I am shown for some reason I just can't remember it. So I do it with pen and paper. Looks like a spread sheet but in handwriting rather than off the PC. Takes forever.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 02:37:12 PM
In theory ?15 represents the VAT@15% so divide it by 15 and multiply by 100.

?15 divided by 15=?1

?1x100 = ?100.

Total bill should then have been ?115.

Let's try it with ?153.75 being the VAT collected at 15%

?153.75 divided by 15 = ?10.25

?10.25 x 100 = ?1025.00

Total bill should then have been ?1178.75

Quite so Snoopy...

A spreadsheet with the pre VAt amount, VAT, add totals would allow you to automatically add them all up and cross check...

As Snoopy points out any other way simply won't work and the VAT man will be down on you like several tonnes of stolen hub caps...

 I do the accounts for a number of charities locally and struggle to get Excel to work. No matter how many times I am shown for some reason I just can't remember it. So I do it with pen and paper. Looks like a spread sheet but in handwriting rather than off the PC. Takes forever.

I am an Excel guru like...  cloud9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 02:39:54 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 02:45:10 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?

Did I say that...?  rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 02:47:20 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?

Did I say that...?  rubschin:


Nearly  whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on March 25, 2010, 02:49:02 PM
Ok, here we go again ... the fractions, or formulae as you call them are:

for 15% ... 3/23 i.e. Multiply the invoice total by 3 then divide by 23. The result will be the amount of VAT; subtract that from the invoice total and you'll have the original invoice figure.

for 17.5% ... 7/47 etc

Simples!
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 25, 2010, 02:49:36 PM
 sad32: sad32: sad32: sad32: sad32: sad32: sad32: sad24: sad24: sad24: sad24: sad24:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 02:50:22 PM
Ok, here we go again ... the fractions, or formulae as you call them are:

for 15% ... 3/23 i.e. Multiply the invoice total by 3 then divide by 23. The result will be the amount of VAT; subtract that from the invoice total and you'll have the original invoice figure.

for 17.5% ... 7/47 etc

Simples!

But he has the VAT totals NOT the invoice totals  Banghead


He knows how much VAT he has charged but he has not calculated the total invoices nor the pre VAT figures. He is trying to arrive at those by working purely from the VAT total.

He has added up the VAT shown on all his invoices and is looking to avoid doing the same to the totals by finding a quick calculation to extrapolate the figures purely from the VAT

As Christopher Robin would say "You are a silly old bear!"
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on March 25, 2010, 03:02:58 PM
I give up  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 03:03:33 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?

Did I say that...?  rubschin:


Nearly  whistle:

In your mind perhaps...  lol:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 03:11:29 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?

Did I say that...?  rubschin:


Nearly  whistle:

In your mind perhaps...  lol:

I have a daughter who managed a B in GCSE Maths but still doesn't know any times tables beyond 4. Baffled me until she revealed that most of the work is done using a 'pooter and/or a calculator.

So she can't do the maths but knows a machine that can.  noooo:

As I pointed out that will do her no good when she has ?20 in her purse and needs to work out what she can buy with it. This argument is, she tell me, flawed in that she would simply put her purchases on a credit card.

Frankly I can't wait to see how she copes when she leaves home  eveilgrin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 03:13:54 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?

Did I say that...?  rubschin:


Nearly  whistle:

In your mind perhaps...  lol:

I have a daughter who managed a B in GCSE Maths but still doesn't know any times tables beyond 4. Baffled me until she revealed that most of the work is done using a 'pooter and/or a calculator.

So she can't do the maths but knows a machine that can.  noooo:

As I pointed out that will do her no good when she has ?20 in her purse and needs to work out what she can buy with it. This argument is, she tell me, flawed in that she would simply put her purchases on a credit card.

Frankly I can't wait to see how she copes when she leaves home  eveilgrin:

Rubbish in/rubbish out tho...

You can't build a working spreadsheet unless you know which formula to put in each box... A thorough understanding of BOMDAS helps too...  lol:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
I'll stick to my trusty Evrite Accountancy Pads and a sharp pencil or two. I don't trust 'pooters that much.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: The Moan Ranger on March 25, 2010, 03:20:50 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?

Did I say that...?  rubschin:


Nearly  whistle:

In your mind perhaps...  lol:

I have a daughter who managed a B in GCSE Maths but still doesn't know any times tables beyond 4. Baffled me until she revealed that most of the work is done using a 'pooter and/or a calculator.

So she can't do the maths but knows a machine that can.  noooo:

As I pointed out that will do her no good when she has ?20 in her purse and needs to work out what she can buy with it. This argument is, she tell me, flawed in that she would simply put her purchases on a credit card.

Frankly I can't wait to see how she copes when she leaves home  eveilgrin:

Rubbish in/rubbish out tho...

You can't build a working spreadsheet unless you know which formula to put in each box... A thorough understanding of BOMDAS helps too...  lol:

Do you mean BODMAS?  whistle:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 03:22:57 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?

Did I say that...?  rubschin:


Nearly  whistle:

In your mind perhaps...  lol:

I have a daughter who managed a B in GCSE Maths but still doesn't know any times tables beyond 4. Baffled me until she revealed that most of the work is done using a 'pooter and/or a calculator.

So she can't do the maths but knows a machine that can.  noooo:

As I pointed out that will do her no good when she has ?20 in her purse and needs to work out what she can buy with it. This argument is, she tell me, flawed in that she would simply put her purchases on a credit card.

Frankly I can't wait to see how she copes when she leaves home  eveilgrin:

Rubbish in/rubbish out tho...

You can't build a working spreadsheet unless you know which formula to put in each box... A thorough understanding of BOMDAS helps too...  lol:

Do you mean BODMAS?  whistle:

It was always BOMDAS when I was a kid...  rubschin:

That was pre-metric mind...  ;D
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: The Moan Ranger on March 25, 2010, 03:25:18 PM
We had BPDMAS. Grammar schools and all that...
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 03:28:06 PM
We had BPDMAS. Grammar schools and all that...

Bog Street Comprehensive for me...  redface:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: The Moan Ranger on March 25, 2010, 03:29:45 PM
We had BPDMAS. Grammar schools and all that...

Bog Street Comprehensive for me...  redface:

I'm still shite with Excel though  ;D
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 25, 2010, 03:35:01 PM





You mean you can't do maths but you know how to make the machine do it?

Did I say that...?  rubschin:


Nearly  whistle:

In your mind perhaps...  lol:

I have a daughter who managed a B in GCSE Maths but still doesn't know any times tables beyond 4. Baffled me until she revealed that most of the work is done using a 'pooter and/or a calculator.

So she can't do the maths but knows a machine that can.  noooo:

As I pointed out that will do her no good when she has ?20 in her purse and needs to work out what she can buy with it. This argument is, she tell me, flawed in that she would simply put her purchases on a credit card.

Frankly I can't wait to see how she copes when she leaves home  eveilgrin:

Rubbish in/rubbish out tho...

You can't build a working spreadsheet unless you know which formula to put in each box... A thorough understanding of BOMDAS helps too...  lol:

Do you mean BODMAS?  whistle:

I was fairly sure he did mean that ..... of course it wasn't called that when I was at school.

We knew it as "Bend over boy ~ I'll cane you until you learn to do it in the right order"

Which is probably why we didn't forget how.
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 25, 2010, 03:41:16 PM
 noooo: noooo: noooo: noooo: Angry9: Angry9: Angry9: cussing: cussing: cussing: cussing:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 25, 2010, 03:50:03 PM
We had BPDMAS. Grammar schools and all that...

Bog Street Comprehensive for me...  redface:

I'm still shite with Excel though  ;D

I learnt my trade with VisiCalc like, then Lotus, Context MBA, etc. before Excel....
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Miss Demeanour on March 25, 2010, 03:52:07 PM
You lot make my head hurt  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: tel on March 25, 2010, 04:06:23 PM
Simples
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 25, 2010, 05:45:55 PM
 :lalalala :lalalala :lalalala :lalalala :lalalala :lalalala :lalalala :lalalala
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 26, 2010, 08:57:25 AM
Are we all ready for another fun day of mathamatical workings out, confuslication and puzzlement then?  happy088
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 26, 2010, 09:03:03 AM
 :lalalala
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 26, 2010, 09:09:42 AM
:lalalala

Nah, don't worry, I'm going out soon, and besides, I've found a foolproof and brand new Growler copyrighted method of unconfuslicating VAT calculationanum.  cloud9:

For instance:  ?64.44 VAT @17.5% is the VAT content on a purchase price BEFORE VAT on ?368.23. happy088

Now that only took me approx 60 seconds to work out, and all I did was press a few buttons several times.  cloud9:
Bloody lafin'!
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 26, 2010, 09:16:19 AM
That doesn't look right to me  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 26, 2010, 09:22:37 AM
That doesn't look right to me  noooo:

Well simply multiply ?368.23 by 17.5% and I think you'll find it is indeed correct.
Add the two figures together, and voila ?432.67.

And you thought I was dim ey? ::)

Give me any reasonable figure you like as VAT content, and I'll werk the before VAT figure out for you. Might take a few minutes, but I'll get it for you, sweet as a nut like.
It is a bit of a back to front formulae like granted, but it really does work and the bonus being that all you have to do is press buttons, no complicatiating confuselicating calculatioms to fry your brain, honest.
Alwys happy to help. cloud9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 26, 2010, 11:06:07 AM
:lalalala

Nah, don't worry, I'm going out soon, and besides, I've found a foolproof and brand new Growler copyrighted method of unconfuslicating VAT calculationanum.  cloud9:

For instance:  ?64.44 VAT @17.5% is the VAT content on a purchase price BEFORE VAT on ?368.23. happy088

Now that only took me approx 60 seconds to work out, and all I did was press a few buttons several times.  cloud9:
Bloody lafin'!

Was that an ana or a digi calculator that you used...?  rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 26, 2010, 11:07:23 AM
Abacus  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Darwins Selection on March 26, 2010, 11:58:52 AM
How do you express .23 in beads?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 26, 2010, 12:18:15 PM
Use seed beads (like shot, beads come in varying sizes)  razz:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on March 26, 2010, 02:13:09 PM
You lot are just being plain silly now, aren't you ey, aren't you? ::)

My new system works. Just a claculator, that's all you need.
Mine has got a solar panel on it, so I presume it's digi? rubschin:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 26, 2010, 02:27:23 PM
You lot are just being plain silly now, aren't you ey, aren't you? ::)

My new system works. Just a claculator, that's all you need.
Mine has got a solar panel on it, so I presume it's digi? rubschin:

Oh yes, quite digi!  point:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Darwins Selection on March 26, 2010, 03:15:12 PM
You lot are just being plain silly now, aren't you ey, aren't you? ::)

My new system works. Just a claculator, that's all you need.
Mine has got a solar panel on it, so I presume it's digi? rubschin:

The sun is analogue, but sadly for you, the calculator is not.  noooo:

Here is an analogue calculator:

(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tcf.ua.edu%2FClasses%2FJbutler%2FT389%2FSlideRule.jpg&hash=01aedfa6dd87b685fade6cb1b8443930b9a759c2)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 26, 2010, 03:58:22 PM
So are these
(https://www.echidnasontheloose.com.au/images/P/cuinaireblocks_web.jpg)



















For the younger members they are Cuisenaire Rods  a maths teaching aid from the distant past
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Darwins Selection on March 26, 2010, 04:17:59 PM
So are these
(https://www.echidnasontheloose.com.au/images/P/cuinaireblocks_web.jpg)

For the younger members they are Cuisenaire Rods  a maths teaching aid from the distant past


Of course.   cloud9:

1 Red+1 Green=1 Blue

1 Purple+2 yellow=1 Orange

1 Black+3 Browns=1 Fight
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Barman on March 26, 2010, 04:21:33 PM
So are these
(https://www.echidnasontheloose.com.au/images/P/cuinaireblocks_web.jpg)

For the younger members they are Cuisenaire Rods  a maths teaching aid from the distant past


Of course.   cloud9:

1 Red+1 Green=1 Blue

1 Purple+2 yellow=1 Orange

1 Black+3 Browns=1 Fight


 drumroll:

 happy001
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 26, 2010, 04:22:46 PM
New one on me, but I can do mental arithmetic in farthings  angel1
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 26, 2010, 04:26:11 PM
SWWLTBO was "teaching" the boys this morning ..... She had to ask me how many yards in a mile  ::)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Darwins Selection on March 26, 2010, 04:26:33 PM
New one on me, but I can do mental arithmetic by farting  angel1

We noticed  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on March 26, 2010, 04:27:32 PM
SWWLTBO was "teaching" the boys this morning ..... She had to ask me how many yards in a mile  ::)
1760  angel1
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Snoopy on March 26, 2010, 04:42:18 PM
And to help Growler with his calculations here are the dimensions of a football pitch  angel1

(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F40747000%2Fgif%2F_40747002_footy_pitch_finale1.gif&hash=a3c4a42db970b262cae4e308acfaca483410cee6)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pirate on March 26, 2010, 05:32:52 PM
(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2F2emedc5.jpg&hash=3ea5839620cdc0d530452cb57bbe3e8b169d3984)
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on September 12, 2011, 09:03:29 AM
Today I haven't got any outdoory type werk to do.
I was going to go up 'me 'ill' to experience some extreme windy weather like, but I've decided that the VAT return needs to be done instead, joy. cloud9:

Are you all ready to 'elp me in case I get a bit confuzzled like please, as I do actually have a small problem already come to think about it, knowing how I can werk out what I pay the vat man regarding someone who's just paid me an outstanding invoice from last year when the rate was 17.5%, and not the currentb 20%.
D'ya think he should have paod the 20% anyway, and if so how do I pay the vat man, as the rates of payment have all changed on this cash accounting scheme I'm on now...I think. confused:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Darwins Selection on September 12, 2011, 09:50:26 AM
Today I haven't got any outdoory type werk to do.
I was going to go up 'me 'ill' to experience some extreme windy weather like, but I've decided that the VAT return needs to be done instead, joy. cloud9:

Are you all ready to 'elp me in case I get a bit confuzzled like please, as I do actually have a small problem already come to think about it, knowing how I can werk out what I pay the vat man regarding someone who's just paid me an outstanding invoice from last year when the rate was 17.5%, and not the currentb 20%.
D'ya think he should have paod the 20% anyway, and if so how do I pay the vat man, as the rates of payment have all changed on this cash accounting scheme I'm on now...I think. confused:
[serious]
Pay the VAT man at the rate in force on the date of the invoice.[/serious]
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on September 12, 2011, 10:26:23 AM
Today I haven't got any outdoory type werk to do.
I was going to go up 'me 'ill' to experience some extreme windy weather like, but I've decided that the VAT return needs to be done instead, joy. cloud9:

Are you all ready to 'elp me in case I get a bit confuzzled like please, as I do actually have a small problem already come to think about it, knowing how I can werk out what I pay the vat man regarding someone who's just paid me an outstanding invoice from last year when the rate was 17.5%, and not the currentb 20%.
D'ya think he should have paod the 20% anyway, and if so how do I pay the vat man, as the rates of payment have all changed on this cash accounting scheme I'm on now...I think. confused:
[serious]
Pay the VAT man at the rate in force on the date of the invoice.[/serious]

Wot he said  ^^^  angel1
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on September 12, 2011, 10:48:25 AM
Tar lads. :thumbsup:
 I thought you had to pay the going rate regardless tbh.

You've just saved me a fiver. Sweet...as a nut. cloud9:

Still just 'looking' at it, hoping it'll werk itself out like. ::)

Been distracted by Friends Re-united.
One of my old class mates has contacted me  cloud9: from Junior scoohell.  sick2:
She hated it as much as me. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on September 12, 2011, 01:42:13 PM
 eyes:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Darwins Selection on September 12, 2011, 02:37:40 PM
Tar lads. :thumbsup:
 I thought you had to pay the going rate regardless tbh.

You've just saved me a fiver. Sweet...as a nut. cloud9:

Still just 'looking' at it, hoping it'll werk itself out like. ::)

Been distracted by Friends Re-united.
One of my old class mates has contacted me  cloud9: from Junior scoohell.  sick2:
She hated it as much as me. :thumbsup:

Did she have any interesting feature that made her stand out?
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Nick on September 12, 2011, 02:39:04 PM
We are plummeting towards the gutter again  noooo:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on April 05, 2013, 05:04:49 PM
This 'll make you's all feel all warm and cosy for the weekend like. lol:

Me VAT thread! cloud9:

Nah, don't really want yer 'elp like, just want to have a rant.

Thinks to meself, better get this online vat return done as I really don't know if Virgin are going to complete the task tomorrow...I just have a nagging doubt somehow....and this return HAS to be submitted for payment by the 10th April.

Just logged on to do it, and .....we apologise, but due to planned upgrade of our site, the online vat form submission form is currently not available, and we'd like to apologise for any inconvienience this may cause..

BLOODY RIGHT you useless heaps of gormless munterisms it's causing me inconvienience. What happens if me puter intermong connection gets gubbed by the spotty yoofs that are hopefully going to install all these cable gubbins tomozo like ey, what, exactly like, ey? Shrugs:

Will you accept my gracious apologies for late payment due to this, coupled with your munterisation of yer web site?

No, thought not. Angry9:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: Pastis on April 05, 2013, 05:39:27 PM
Can't access the site from here either.  Mine's not due 'til the end of May thankfully, or rather the beginning of June since they give you extra days for online payment.

All will be well, it'll be up and running over the weekend and go through sweet as a nut ...  :thumbsup:

 scared2:
Title: Re: Maths question
Post by: GROWLER on April 05, 2013, 05:44:04 PM
Can't access the site from here either.  Mine's not due 'til the end of May thankfully, or rather the beginning of June since they give you extra days for online payment.

All will be well, it'll be up and running over the weekend and go through sweet as a nut ...  :thumbsup:

 scared2:

Well that may be too late if me intermong connection goes tits up tomozo.

Apparently, another sub contactor goon was here this avvy, proffesionaly 'prodding' the gunged up hole with a stick where the cable connector thing is under the pavement. whistle:

"Ahhh, that'll be ok now then"...apparently. pathead:

Just my piggin' luck that the HMRC have to do the first 'upgrade' on their site (that I'm aware of) since I've been doing me vat online, just when I need it most...BASTARDS! Banghead

Really couldn't make it up.