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Come Inside... => Saloon Bar => Topic started by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:12:35 PM

Title: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:12:35 PM
Does anyone know (Mr Wench maybe) why there is a Welsh Presbyterian church in Sutton? TMR knows where it is.

I can't find it in any local directory or web page.
What's it doing in Sutton and in an area that was predominately Irish for many years?


(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postimage.org%2Fgx1AEGXS.jpg&hash=4c4b7aabed9c9e37d370e77fbe3b41eb9cc8e5db) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1AEGXS)
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 01:15:01 PM
Out for a walk once (somewhere near Wisley?) I came across an Ezekiel Chapel where some guy ina forck coat was delivering a fire and brimstone sermon to a packed chapel. Perhaps they sent missionaries or summat? The Welsh tedn to stick together when away from the valleys. Perhaps they travel from miles around
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:16:28 PM
Not a clue!  We don't really do religion.  redface: Mr Wench used to I think but I have broken him of that.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: The Moan Ranger on March 02, 2009, 01:16:40 PM
I like the protective fencing round it!  Doubt it will stop 2 tons of Lexus smashing through it  evil:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 01:17:29 PM
Quote
Mr Wench used to I think but I have broken him

 noooo:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:18:23 PM
Quote
However, St.Nicholas was not the first purpose-built church in Sutton. The present-day Sutton Oak Welsh Chapel in Lancots Lane was built by the Wesleyan Methodists in 1845, using cobbles made out of copper slag, donated by local firm Newton Keats & Co. In 1893 the Wesleyans moved to new premises and the chapel was handed over to the Welsh community who used it as an nondenominational, nonconformist place of worship.

http://www.suttonbeauty.org.uk/suttonhistory/religion.html
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:21:04 PM
Not a clue!  We don't really do religion.  redface: Mr Wench used to I think but I have broken him of that.

Tell him to find out.

Although it's been there for years it is only now that it has started to really bug me. Been past it thousands of times but now I walk past it every Friday and it's there, doing sweet FA, no sign of activity etc. and I can't find anybody who has a clue about it's existence.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:21:34 PM
http://www.welshchapel.co.nr/
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:22:47 PM
Quote
However, St.Nicholas was not the first purpose-built church in Sutton. The present-day Sutton Oak Welsh Chapel in Lancots Lane was built by the Wesleyan Methodists in 1845, using cobbles made out of copper slag, donated by local firm Newton Keats & Co. In 1893 the Wesleyans moved to new premises and the chapel was handed over to the Welsh community who used it as an nondenominational, nonconformist place of worship.

http://www.suttonbeauty.org.uk/suttonhistory/religion.html

That's St Helens! Since when has that been in Surrey?
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:23:40 PM
http://www.welshchapel.co.nr/

St Helens again!
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:25:57 PM
 redface:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:28:50 PM
redface:

Lind Road, Sutton, off of Carshalton Road - do you know it?
Nightingale pub on corner, used to be called The Jenny Lind.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 01:31:13 PM
Well Jenny Lind was Swedish, so what connection does she have with Sutton?
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: The Moan Ranger on March 02, 2009, 01:35:14 PM
Well Jenny Lind was Swedish, so what connection does she have with Sutton?

She used to do gigs there on Friday Nights - very fond of Guinness I am told.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:39:36 PM
redface:

Lind Road, Sutton, off of Carshalton Road - do you know it?
Nightingale pub on corner, used to be called The Jenny Lind.

Jenny Lind was also known as the swedish nightingale wasn't she?  rubschin:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Snoopy on March 02, 2009, 01:40:11 PM
Why would it worry you?
People build hundreds of chapels and churches in the 1800's. My great, great Grandfather was a founding member of one such in Southampton. Many of these old buildings have no congregation these days but the buildings are often listed and may not be demolished. Slowly they are being converted to other uses but the external appearance often may not be changed because of their listed status. Many are still standing on "consecrated" ground, there may even be some graves to be considered.

If you really want to know about it ask at you local planning office, they will have details of any listings etc and will probably know who currently owns the property and what, if any plans, they have for its future.

IMHO far too many of these wonderful old buildings have been allowed to vanish. They are part of our heritage and whether you are religious or of the "you won't catch me worshipping sky pixies" brigade, these buildings and those that built them are our history and are what once made this country great. My recommendation would be that you simply enjoy the history and architecture that goes with it and remember that it was built by people as an expression of their faith with money raised from their own pockets over a great many years. Governments do not build such places, neither do rate payers. The old congregation will have purchased the land, all the materials and done the work with no help from anyone and often in the face of opposition from the "established" church.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:40:42 PM
Well it is listed here but not speaking/reading welsh I have no idea what it says.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 01:41:37 PM
Well it is listed here but not speaking/reading welsh I have no idea what it says.

ASK


MR


WENCH


THEN




















wimmin  noooo:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:42:55 PM
Well it is listed here but not speaking/reading welsh I have no idea what it says.

Listed where?
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:45:09 PM
Well it is listed here but not speaking/reading welsh I have no idea what it says.

http://www.anoeth.demon.co.uk/egach.html

 redface:


Mr Wench

neither

speaks

nor

reads

Welsh!
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 01:45:25 PM
'here' it would seem. I have no idea what she is on about either.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:45:32 PM
Why would it worry you?
People build hundreds of chapels and churches in the 1800's. My great, great Grandfather was a founding member of one such in Southampton. Many of these old buildings have no congregation these days but the buildings are often listed and may not be demolished. Slowly they are being converted to other uses but the external appearance often may not be changed because of their listed status. Many are still standing on "consecrated" ground, there may even be some graves to be considered.

If you really want to know about it ask at you local planning office, they will have details of any listings etc and will probably know who currently owns the property and what, if any plans, they have for its future.

IMHO far too many of these wonderful old buildings have been allowed to vanish. They are part of our heritage and whether you are religious or of the "you won't catch me worshipping sky pixies" brigade, these buildings and those that built them are our history and are what once made this country great. My recommendation would be that you simply enjoy the history and architecture that goes with it and remember that it was built by people as an expression of their faith with money raised from their own pockets over a great many years. Governments do not build such places, neither do rate payers. The old congregation will have purchased the land, all the materials and done the work with no help from anyone and often in the face of opposition from the "established" church.

I am curious as to how a Welsh church came to be built in a mainly Irish area, the pub was always Irish when I was a kid, got take there by my grandfather.
I know of no other Welsh connection in this area, I think I have only ever known 3 Welsh people that lived around here.
Puzzling - who let them in?
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 01:45:57 PM
Well it is listed here but not speaking/reading welsh I have no idea what it says.

http://www.anoeth.demon.co.uk/egach.html

 redface:


Mr Wench

neither

speaks

nor

reads

Welsh!

He should learn. He must have Welsh genes
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:48:06 PM
Why would it worry you?
People build hundreds of chapels and churches in the 1800's. My great, great Grandfather was a founding member of one such in Southampton. Many of these old buildings have no congregation these days but the buildings are often listed and may not be demolished. Slowly they are being converted to other uses but the external appearance often may not be changed because of their listed status. Many are still standing on "consecrated" ground, there may even be some graves to be considered.

If you really want to know about it ask at you local planning office, they will have details of any listings etc and will probably know who currently owns the property and what, if any plans, they have for its future.

IMHO far too many of these wonderful old buildings have been allowed to vanish. They are part of our heritage and whether you are religious or of the "you won't catch me worshipping sky pixies" brigade, these buildings and those that built them are our history and are what once made this country great. My recommendation would be that you simply enjoy the history and architecture that goes with it and remember that it was built by people as an expression of their faith with money raised from their own pockets over a great many years. Governments do not build such places, neither do rate payers. The old congregation will have purchased the land, all the materials and done the work with no help from anyone and often in the face of opposition from the "established" church.

I am curious as to how a Welsh church came to be built in a mainly Irish area, the pub was always Irish when I was a kid, got take there by my grandfather.
I know of no other Welsh connection in this area, I think I have only ever known 3 Welsh people that lived around here.
Puzzling - who let them in?

There has been a Welsh population in Sutton for a while. For instance Mr Wench's Grandfather's second wife has an awful lot of family in the area. Think they moved here initially in the 30s and given what Nana is like I can't imagine they would have done it unless there was a community there.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Barman on March 02, 2009, 01:49:59 PM
Why would it worry you?
People build hundreds of chapels and churches in the 1800's. My great, great Grandfather was a founding member of one such in Southampton. Many of these old buildings have no congregation these days but the buildings are often listed and may not be demolished. Slowly they are being converted to other uses but the external appearance often may not be changed because of their listed status. Many are still standing on "consecrated" ground, there may even be some graves to be considered.

If you really want to know about it ask at you local planning office, they will have details of any listings etc and will probably know who currently owns the property and what, if any plans, they have for its future.

IMHO far too many of these wonderful old buildings have been allowed to vanish. They are part of our heritage and whether you are religious or of the "you won't catch me worshipping sky pixies" brigade, these buildings and those that built them are our history and are what once made this country great. My recommendation would be that you simply enjoy the history and architecture that goes with it and remember that it was built by people as an expression of their faith with money raised from their own pockets over a great many years. Governments do not build such places, neither do rate payers. The old congregation will have purchased the land, all the materials and done the work with no help from anyone and often in the face of opposition from the "established" church.

I am curious as to how a Welsh church came to be built in a mainly Irish area, the pub was always Irish when I was a kid, got take there by my grandfather.
I know of no other Welsh connection in this area, I think I have only ever known 3 Welsh people that lived around here.
Puzzling - who let them in?
Pikeys prolly nicked it and left it there...  whistle:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Snoopy on March 02, 2009, 01:50:48 PM
Well it is listed here but not speaking/reading welsh I have no idea what it says.

ASK


MR


WENCH


THEN




















wimmin  noooo:

Errrrr ~ He doesn't speak or read Welsh ~ in fact only about 10% of Welsh people do. Of the 1900 residents of this village the only Welsh speakers are the children who study it at school, some twenty native Welsh and a dozen or so incomers from England (and one Yank) who have learnt the language. The majority of Natives can neither read nor speak the language Welsh is a very difficult language  as, like Breton, it follows none of the usual rules. BTW the incomers who have learned the language are the most rabid when it comes to Welsh culture etc. They are the cottage burners. Real Wesh people are too busy taking money off the tourists to be bothered with such things. Even our local Paid Cymru member is English but has changed his name to seem Welsh.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 01:51:48 PM
I have never heard of a Welsh "community" around here - do they live underground or something?

Lotsa Irish and some Scots, but Welsh?

I think that there is one who goes to our local.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 01:53:25 PM
Quote
do they live underground or somet

They are mining under your foundations as we speak. It's like a hobby!
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Snoopy on March 02, 2009, 01:54:03 PM
Quote
do they live underground or somet

They are mining under your foundations as we speak. It's like a hobby!

Like a Hobbit surely?
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: The Moan Ranger on March 02, 2009, 01:55:25 PM
I have never heard of a Welsh "community" around here - do they live underground or something?

Lotsa Irish and some Scots, but Welsh?

I think that there is one who goes to our local.

Point him out to me... evil:

And yes, they do live underground - here's a picture of some Welshers yesterday...



(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postimage.org%2FaVBe9J9.jpg&hash=b724731a20426ad7215f3e572a0afbc9e4471d9c) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVBe9J9)
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:56:09 PM
I have never heard of a Welsh "community" around here - do they live underground or something?

Lotsa Irish and some Scots, but Welsh?

I think that there is one who goes to our local.

By now they probably aren't a community as such and have sensibly assimilated into being English but given that the church was probably built/taken over many years ago then it does sort of make sense.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Bar Wench on March 02, 2009, 01:56:51 PM
IMHO far too many of these wonderful old buildings have been allowed to vanish. They are part of our heritage and whether you are religious or of the "you won't catch me worshipping sky pixies" brigade, these buildings and those that built them are our history and are what once made this country great. My recommendation would be that you simply enjoy the history and architecture that goes with it and remember that it was built by people as an expression of their faith with money raised from their own pockets over a great many years. Governments do not build such places, neither do rate payers. The old congregation will have purchased the land, all the materials and done the work with no help from anyone and often in the face of opposition from the "established" church.

I agree. Just because I don't believe doesn't mean that I don't appreciate them.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 01:57:08 PM
They never assimilate, they tunnel  eveilgrin:

They are prolly halfway down the M4 by now
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: The Moan Ranger on March 02, 2009, 02:31:04 PM
Tel, beer up 8p today!
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 02:43:10 PM
Tel, beer up 8p today!

I'm unemployeed - they can't do this to me!

They were trying to deflect this by announcing the big new screen in the dark side. evil:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 03:00:12 PM
Tel, beer up 8p today!

I thought that was about Young's shares  noooo:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: tel on March 02, 2009, 03:05:40 PM
Tel, beer up 8p today!

I thought that was about Young's shares  noooo:

Last year they put the prices up before the budget increase and then probably wondered why a lot of customers relocated to a Wetherspoons pub.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 05:01:46 PM
Our local Wetherspoons is closing down!!  eeek:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Miss Demeanour on March 02, 2009, 05:37:24 PM
Anything to do with the plod parked outside  whistle:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Snoopy on March 02, 2009, 06:03:41 PM
Our local Wetherspoons is closing down!!  eeek:

Any Wetherspoons closing = no great loss.
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: Nick on March 02, 2009, 06:50:58 PM
Our local Wetherspoons is closing down!!  eeek:

Any Wetherspoons closing = no great loss.

True. The Plod drink in there noooo:
Title: Re: Welsh church in Surrey?
Post by: The Moan Ranger on March 02, 2009, 07:06:26 PM
8p price rise is not going stop drinking in my pub. Those of us that choose to continue drinking there do so for a reason - the young scummers go to the Wetherspoon pub.

I do miss the poorer pensioners, though - lovely older men with great stories and goodness instilled, who are now choosing to walk a 1/2 mile up the road, for a 99p pint and a £2.67 full breakfast at the Wetherspoon and they all leave before the scummers arrive. Cant't blame 'em...