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Come Inside... => The Commons => Topic started by: Bar Wench on December 02, 2008, 12:43:13 PM

Title: Sympathy
Post by: Bar Wench on December 02, 2008, 12:43:13 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7746174.stm

This entire article seems to have been written to garner sympathy for the unemployed. And whilst I have a degree of it for the deaths and some of the trauma the family have suffered overwhelmingly my feeling is one of outrage!

Quote
Without any qualifications she assumed she wasn't able to follow her chosen path and join the Army. She never actually made it to the recruitment office to ask.

Well why not?

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"All my pals are looking for work as well. But it's not that easy to get a job straightaway, you've got to write out your CV and everything and then hand it in to places."

You don't say! Looking for work should be full time employment! No bugger is going silver plate you a job FFS!  Banghead
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Snoopy on December 02, 2008, 01:00:05 PM
True but the latest Government statistics show that there are some 3 million without jobs (if you believe such a low figure) and only 40,000 vacancies registered. That imbalance has to he addressed before you can expect people like those interviewed (who seem to have had a rough deal anyway) to have any chance of getting any sort of work.
Additionally job centre staff, in the main, are only interested in ticking boxes ~ they don't actually try to find people work. The days when employers used to get a weekly call from their local job centre actively looking for vacancies have long gone ~ Yes they really used to do that and they used to follow up everyone they sent to an interview by calling the employer to ask why the person had been turned down and if the vacancy was still available for others to be sent along.
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Bar Wench on December 02, 2008, 01:11:00 PM
Oh I am sure there is an imbalance, but there are jobs available and some people just aren't prepared to do the minimum. Like apply!  ::)
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Snoopy on December 02, 2008, 01:15:36 PM
Applications is what the Job Centre Plus work on ~ they are quite happy to keep paying you so long as you keep sending in applications for jobs. Every so often they want you to go on a course to "brush up your job finding skills"  This usually consists of an 18year old telling you to look in newspapers and on-line to find vacancies and then pulling your CV apart and putting it back together again, usually poorly spelt. They also like to give you a little pep talk every now and again so that you don't get demotivated.

The key to that family in the BBC example would be education and some serious psychiatric help.
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Grumpmeister on December 02, 2008, 01:26:50 PM
Oh I am sure there is an imbalance, but there are jobs available and some people just aren't prepared to do the minimum. Like apply!  ::)

I have to agree on that one, we have a thriving immigrant community in Cornwall who take on every job they can find, normally the ones that a lot of the people 'looking' for work consider beneath them.

I had a blazing row with a local the other day who was furious that these people were coming to Cornwall and taking 'Cornish jobs' when I pointed out that if the unemployed wanted to go daffodil/strawberry/etc picking for example they could do so just as easily.
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Just One More on December 03, 2008, 06:50:34 AM
Oh I am sure there is an imbalance, but there are jobs available and some people just aren't prepared to do the minimum. Like apply!  ::)

I have taken on 16 people in the past couple of months, and I'm interviewing for four more posts today. OK, the jobs are at the so-called "low-end" of the market, with a basic of £22,000, but overtime can add at least 50% to that. The ones that always improve their chances are the ones that come through the door asking if we have any vacancies, it shows that they are prepared to get off their arses and go and find work.
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Bar Wench on December 03, 2008, 10:43:55 AM
Ummm what is it you are employing for JOM?
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Barman on December 03, 2008, 10:50:25 AM
Ummm what is it you are employing for JOM?
He's unlikely to be employing people that play on t'interweb all day...  whistle:
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Nick on December 03, 2008, 10:51:35 AM
Apart from himself, like
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Bar Wench on December 03, 2008, 11:19:04 AM
Ummm what is it you are employing for JOM?
He's unlikely to be employing people that play on t'interweb all day...  whistle:

That could change!
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Nick on December 03, 2008, 11:24:08 AM
How are your mopping and dusting skills?
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Just One More on December 03, 2008, 12:56:59 PM
Ummm what is it you are employing for JOM?

General labourers, HGV drivers
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Snoopy on December 03, 2008, 12:59:15 PM
You're going to dig up some more of my home county you vandal  cussing:
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Bar Wench on December 03, 2008, 01:26:42 PM
Ummm what is it you are employing for JOM?

General labourers, HGV drivers

 rubschin:

You need a drivers licence for that don't you really.

 rubschin:
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Barman on December 03, 2008, 01:31:20 PM
Ummm what is it you are employing for JOM?

General labourers, HGV drivers

 rubschin:

You need a drivers licence for that don't you really.

 rubschin:
And the ability to see, prolly...  whistle:
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Nick on December 03, 2008, 02:14:26 PM
ANd some big boots
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 03, 2008, 02:22:39 PM
Meanwhile back on topic.

I cannot feel any sympathy towards this bunch.

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"An office job would be too boring, although not doing a job at all is boring, that's how I ended up on the drink."


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"I don't do nothing...  I should have stayed at school and got all my exams, but I never done them.

Hopefully in five years time I'll have a big fancy house, if I get the right job."


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"Sometimes I go to school"
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Nick on December 03, 2008, 02:24:06 PM
It's shocking stuff! Are they completely thick, or just habituated to a life on benefits?
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Snoopy on December 03, 2008, 02:29:58 PM
Nature or nurture ~ Does it matter? The cure is what is needed. We know what the complaint is.
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 03, 2008, 02:33:31 PM
Both I'd imagine.

Trouble is that they become not so much unemployed as unemployable. What is the cure?
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Barman on December 03, 2008, 02:49:23 PM
Both I'd imagine.

Trouble is that they become not so much unemployed as unemployable. What is the cure?
I'm all for National Service or a similar thing for the unemployable...

Get them picking veg, sweeping the streets, painting stones white... anything but sit at home watching the telly and laughing at the rest of the working population...  cussing:
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Snoopy on December 03, 2008, 02:51:19 PM
It starts with life expectations, education (which has been royally fvcked for years now) has a great part to play.
Blair was right when he said "Education, Education, Education" but he did damn all to make it any better.
BUT Education has to be about more than the three R's (although they would be a help) I was educated by Teachers, Parents, Aunts, Uncles, Policemen and the local Park Keepers. None of these now dares to touch a child let alone correct it. Park Keepers have dissappeared forever. Policemen seldom get out of their cars, Aunts and Uncles "don't like to interfer" or take the kid's side and laugh at his/her "little ways" and teacher's worst threat is a 15 minute detention (and what kid wants to go into the playground when its pissing down or freezing anyway). Suspension from school ~ don't make me laugh. By the time the little scotes have beeen reinstated on appeal they have become untouchable and know it. From then on they do as they like. AND if the appeal isn't upheld they are equally happy as they don't have to go to school.

Bring back the cane!  angry037
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 03, 2008, 03:11:42 PM
I'm all for National Service or a similar thing for the unemployable...

The eldest lad William was in the army for three and a half years so it probably isn't the answer.

Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Snoopy on December 03, 2008, 03:15:28 PM
I'm all for National Service or a similar thing for the unemployable...

The eldest lad William was in the army for three and a half years so it probably isn't the answer.



I expect he was bullied stupid in the army ~ he looks the sort that would have been. We DIs used to try and weed them out in the first two weeks ~ mostly they were easy to spot.
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Barman on December 03, 2008, 03:17:14 PM
I'm all for National Service or a similar thing for the unemployable...

The eldest lad William was in the army for three and a half years so it probably isn't the answer.


Three and a half years when he wasn't sitting in front of the telly then...?
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Uncle Mort on December 03, 2008, 03:25:12 PM
I expect he was bullied stupid in the army ~ he looks the sort that would have been. We DIs used to try and weed them out in the first two weeks ~ mostly they were easy to spot.

Wouldn't it have been better to have stopped the bullying?


(I know, I know ~ stupid question)
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Snoopy on December 03, 2008, 03:34:12 PM
Easier to kick 'em out. Couldn't watch them all the time. The minute "lights out" sounds the trouble starts.

Most of the bullying, in my experience, came not from the NCO's (although you always get one or two) but from their so called mates. Any defect or "oddity" from a wart on his arse to a big nose or sticky out ears and he was in for it. He either fought back and won or didn't and lost.

NCOs soon learn that to attempt to defend such people will make matters far worse for them.

Safer for all to have them returned home as "psychologically unsuited to military life"
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Grumpmeister on December 04, 2008, 07:01:23 PM
Nature or nurture ~ Does it matter? The cure is what is needed. We know what the complaint is.

National Service may be a non starter given that we are currently in 2 wars in the middle east.  It wouldnt be that hard for someone to say NS would be a breach of their human rights as they could be sent there.

Something similar could be done though, there is any amount of community grunt work that these people could do in order to keep recieving their benefits. One thing that comes to mind, given the government's current buzz about carbon emissions and the environment would be to have them sort through landfills in order to seperate material that could be easily recycled. A couple of weeks of that and I'm pretty sure they would be looking for other work.
Title: Re: Sympathy
Post by: Barman on December 05, 2008, 09:41:42 AM
Nature or nurture ~ Does it matter? The cure is what is needed. We know what the complaint is.

National Service may be a non starter given that we are currently in 2 wars in the middle east.  It wouldnt be that hard for someone to say NS would be a breach of their human rights as they could be sent there.

Something similar could be done though, there is any amount of community grunt work that these people could do in order to keep recieving their benefits. One thing that comes to mind, given the government's current buzz about carbon emissions and the environment would be to have them sort through landfills in order to seperate material that could be easily recycled. A couple of weeks of that and I'm pretty sure they would be looking for other work.
Indeed... it doesn't have to be called NS or run by the military (although I'm sure there are a few retired RSMs that would love to be involved)...

They key thing is that the feckless that simply don't want to work are forced to do something for their dole money...