The Virtual Pub
Come Inside... => Saloon Bar => Topic started by: Grumpmeister on November 15, 2007, 06:41:38 PM
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Ok let me see if I have the facts straight, some poor bugger alone on a bus goes into a diabetic coma and then gets shot with a taser by police officers who are also pointing real guns at him becaue they thought he looked Egyptian and was a security threat?
A man who had gone into a diabetic coma on a bus in Leeds was shot twice with a Taser gun by police who feared he may have been a security threat.
Nicholas Gaubert has described how the incident happened in July 2005, just a week before the fatal shooting of Brazilian man Jean Charles de Menezes.
Mr Gaubert, 34, said he was suffering severe post-traumatic stress as a result of the shooting.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) is investigating.
Mr Gaubert, who lives in Leeds, said he had now decided to speak out after the Crown Prosecution Service ruled no officers involved should be charged with any criminal offences.
The IPCC is still considering whether any disciplinary matters will be brought against the officers.
Armed police deployed
Mr Gaubert said he was on his way to meet friends when he suffered a hypoglycaemic fit on the bus which left him slumped on his seat clutching his rucksack.
Armed police were called to the bus depot in Headingley and when he failed to respond to their challenges he was shot with the Taser.
He said as this was happening, another officer was pointing a real gun at his head.
He was restrained and eventually came round in the police van.
He said it was only then that the officers realised it was a medical emergency, despite him wearing a medical tag round his neck to warn of his condition, and took him to hospital.
Mr Gaubert said he was told the police believed he looked "Egyptian".
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Nope I've tried and I really can't see an 'Egyyptian' look about him.
Mr Gaubert's solicitor Ifti Manzoor said the incident had clear parallels with the shooting of Mr Menezes at Stockwell tube station and showed there was evidence of a breakdown in communication between the police on the ground and their commanders.
Mr Gaubert said: "When I heard about that Brazilian man in London I just thought, 'oh no, that could have been me'."
Mr Manzoor added: "The evidence is there was an order that officers be deployed and contain the scene. This direct order seems to have been ignored.
"I really appreciate that under the circumstances and at that time the police had an enormously difficult job.
"But Mr Gaubert was alone in a bus depot.
"He is completely traumatised by this. He is living with it every day."
'Potential security threat'
A statement from the IPCC said: "The IPCC managed an investigation into an incident on 13 July 2005 in which West Yorkshire Police discharged a Taser at a man while he sat on a bus in Leeds.
"The man was mistakenly treated as a potential security threat when he was, in fact, in a hypoglycaemic state. The investigation report was submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in November 2006.
"The CPS returned its initial decision in February 2007 stating that no officers should be charged with any criminal offences.
"Consideration was then given by the CPS as to whether any offences had been committed under health and safety law.
"A decision was received recently to advise that no charges would be brought under this legislation.
"The IPCC must determine whether any disciplinary matters need to be considered against the officers involved.
"Initial recommendations regarding discipline put forward by the police forces involved have not been agreed by the IPCC and discussions are ongoing. "
West Yorkshire Police said the matter was in the hands of the IPCC.
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Nope I've tried and I really can't see an 'Egyyptian' look about him.
(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.needlepointfun.com%2Fimages%2FTUT_TUTANKHAMEN_TUTANKHAMUN.JPG&hash=b308085116fac0b2396e8e49499eeb9c1abc1bbf)
rubschin: That striped shirt is a bit iffy don't you think?
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I hope not, I have a number of striped shirts. I'd have to replace most of my work wardrobe for safety's sake eeek:
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I hope not, I have a number of striped shirts. I'd have to replace most of my work wardrobe for safety's sake eeek:
Can you get stripey kevlar vests?
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Mr Gaubert said he was told the police believed he looked "Egyptian".
(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F44241000%2Fjpg%2F_44241829_ngaubert_pa203b.jpg&hash=c14f84862eb79df5137b0f79a687291ceeb9fba4)
Nope I've tried and I really can't see an 'Egyyptian' look about him.
Mr Gaubert's solicitor Ifti Manzoor said the incident had clear parallels with the shooting of Mr Menezes at Stockwell tube station and showed there was evidence of a breakdown in communication between the police on the ground and their commanders.
Mind you, his solicitor sounds as though he might just be!
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I hope not, I have a number of striped shirts. I'd have to replace most of my work wardrobe for safety's sake eeek:
Depends on the sort of stripe really. Some are really not up there in the sartorial elegance stakes. noooo:
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I hope not, I have a number of striped shirts. I'd have to replace most of my work wardrobe for safety's sake eeek:
Depends on the sort of stripe really. Some are really not up there in the sartorial elegance stakes. noooo:
First a 'Restaurant section', next it will be 'Fashion Advice' from Zondra Wench. ::)
If it is comfortable I will wear it, if you don't like what it looks like, shut your eyes or move away. evil:
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
Well the good news is that Ian Blair would almost certainly have to resign if they shot you with a tazer and killed you, yes almost definitely this time… whistle:
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
Try not to look Egyptian.
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
Try not to look Egyptian.
And never-ever carry a rucksack... noooo:
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
Perhaps a badge giving this information?
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
Perhaps a badge giving this information?
::)
A terrorist would never think of that eh Wenchy?
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
Perhaps a badge giving this information?
::)
A terrorist would never think of that eh Wenchy?
Of course not! It's probably against their religion to wear badges! ::)
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
Chain-mail vest for you at Xmas then?
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I do have an ID Card giving this information in several languages which the EU kindly supply but no-one ever reads it ~ not even the paramedics when I was taken to Hospital when I collapsed in the street last year nor for that matter did the Doctors & Nurses in A&E. "We know best" seems to be the attitude. One Doctor even told me that he had never seen such a card before but then he had never encountered anyone with an ICD Implant before either. ::)
As for carrying a rucksack ~ FFS! I have a wife. Wife = Handbag. Why should I need to carry anything that won't fit in a trouser pocket?
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Getting back on topic ~ I find this very scary ~ I am diabetic and also have an implanted defibrillator. If some trigger happy rozzers blasts me with his taser I'm a gonner.
Perhaps a badge giving this information?
::)
A terrorist would never think of that eh Wenchy?
Of course not! It's probably against their religion to wear badges! ::)
Indeed... ::)
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As the boards sole diabetic can i just point out that he'd have to be a moron to go into a diabetic coma. If your bloods are low there's plenty of warning signs and a cure known as sugar. It takes longer for your sugars to go high and preety much every case is caused by idiocy.
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As the boards sole diabetic . . .
I think not.
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I too am diabetic (I'll be Spartacus too if you like) and I have hypo'd when not expecting to. Not all diabetics have control of their condition and there is not always "plenty of warning"
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I too am diabetic (I'll be Spartacus too if you like) and I have hypo'd when not expecting to. Not all diabetics have control of their condition and there is not always "plenty of warning"
You need to go easy on those Bonios... noooo:
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I too am diabetic (I'll be Spartacus too if you like) and I have hypo'd when not expecting to. Not all diabetics have control of their condition and there is not always "plenty of warning"
You need to go easy on those Bonios... noooo:
It's those or scraps from the Landlord's table and I wouldn't get the Bonios if it were not for Wenchy's soft heart. sad24:
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I was only micky taking with the 'only', Snoops and i have discussed before.
Never remember which is which Snoops, is hypo the low, in my experience there is usually warning signs and the coma takes a while. If it's the high then you'd have to be not looking after yourself properly.
I hear newspaper reports quite often of diabetics near death experience. One lady attempted to sue a train company because the train was stuck between signals for an hour and she 'could have died'. She could if she'd given me her story...
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lol: Indeed ~ I would have done for her too.
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lol: Indeed ~ I would have done for her too.
Help e out then snoops which is hyper and which is hypo?
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Hypo is Low: Hypoglycaemia is a condition where the level of glucose (sugar) in the blood drops below a certain point. The first symptoms are sweating, rapid heart beat, dizzyness, trembling. Depends on the individual at what point this sets in but it can cause the sufferer to pass out. They (the Doctors) Tell me that a blood sugar level of 3mmol/l is considered to be a hypo but I start to hypo at about 4.5 so I do get the warnings to top up the sugar levels ~ now that I have learned to recognise what is going on. In fact I carry some glucose tablets wherever I go and always have a couple of muesli bars in the car. The problem I found was that some days I would miss a meal because I was not hungry ~ I've always done this ... doesn't everyone? and I felt no ill effects yet on other days missing a meal or even just being a hour or so late in eating and I'm in Hypo mode.
Hyper is High ~ the danger with Hyper is not so bad really unless it is prolonged when heart problems can be caused.
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I hypo at about 4, missing a meal isn't a common experience for me. My hypos tend to occur overnight. When out and about I'm a proper boy scout, dextrose et al.
I knew a nutter once who used to deliberately hypo as it made hime feel invincible, nob!
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I've never understood why they let themselves get into this sort of a state. Surely any normal diabetic carries stuff with them, glucose tablets, chocolate etc.
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I've never understood why they let themselves get into this sort of a state. Surely any normal diabetic carries stuff with them, glucose tablets, chocolate etc.
Indeed they do but what is "normal"? An additional problem is that some, who have been diabetic for a long time, can suddenly keel over without any prior symptoms, as seems to have been the case with this chap.
But surely the issue here is the complete lack of common sense shown by the police officers involved. Someone in a comatose state should be obvious but because they (the police) had been told that the bus driver "thought" that the person MIGHT be a bomber they went in "all guns blazing" so to speak, without further thought. In my opinion it presents a good argument against arming ordinary officers with these weapons. A shock from one would kill me because of my implanted defibrillator but how many police officers are even aware of ICDs? According to latest figures from the Arrhythmia Association there are only about 2700 of us in the UK and even fewer are also diabetic so, to my mind, better training is needed. The fewer police officers that are allowed to handle these weapons the easier it would be to (i) train them fully and (ii) keep control over their deployment.
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...but because they (the police) had been told that the bus driver "thought" that the person MIGHT be a bomber they went in "all guns blazing" so to speak, without further thought. In my opinion it presents a good argument against arming ordinary officers with these weapons.
It's also a good argument for the authorities to stop 'talking up' the threat. The public start seeing bombers everywhere.
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how many police officers are even aware of ICDs?
I doubt if most coppers know anything about any method of contraception.
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doh:
Indeed "Prevention" is something they have long since forgotten. Even the Crime Prevention Officers have now been renamed "Crime Reduction" Officers.
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doh:
Indeed "Prevention" is something they have long since forgotten. Even the Crime Prevention Officers have now been renamed "Crime Reduction" Officers.
If the antics of the 'highly trained' armed response police are anything to go by - it's a waste of time and money bothering to train them.
Any 'less than lethal' device available to them is 'more than likely' to be deployed with less restraint.