Two teenage boys have been arrested after an 11-year-old was shot dead on his way home from playing football.
The pair, aged 14 and 18, were held over the murder of Rhys Jones who was shot by a youth on a BMX bicycle at a pub car park in Croxteth, Liverpool.
What do you suggest Gordo does?Resign! cussing:
What do you suggest Gordo does?Resign! cussing:
What do you suggest Gordo does?Resign! cussing:
It was a serious question. Who should sort this out? Gordo? Government in general? Us? No one? Parents?
On it goes..................
I was serious ? the whole lot should go.What do you suggest Gordo does?Resign! cussing:
It was a serious question. Who should sort this out? Gordo? Government in general? Us? No one? Parents?
On it goes..................
I hate this load of shite too, but this is about parents and kids surely> I am sick of hearing about "no Youth facilites" and the like (as I did this morning). Er, the kid who got shot had been out playing, er, football. Where was that then?Ye-ess, it is about parents and not just about the gov?
http://www.myerscough.ac.uk/?page=liverpool-home (http://www.myerscough.ac.uk/?page=liverpool-home)
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-2831200-croxteth_park_riding_centre_liverpool-i (http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-2831200-croxteth_park_riding_centre_liverpool-i)
http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Leisure_and_culture/index.asp (http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Leisure_and_culture/index.asp)
http://www.liv.ac.uk/~ggastro/new.croxteth.party02.html (http://www.liv.ac.uk/~ggastro/new.croxteth.party02.html)
We have nowt to do so we must shoot someone!. Give me a break!
Anybody got a thread merge tool?I merged it! cloud9:
http://www.move-to-cyprus.com/virtual-pub/SMF/index.php?topic=1230.0
10th post down. point:
I will think about that. When I was with you t'other day you were well aware that I had an ear cocked at all times for The Boy. I ran off once or twice to sort him. I am his Dad and that is my job.
Where is the balance of government and parents? I don't know. Both!? You do the same job. Not everyone does.
Hmmm.
Yours is a case ( I won't say special). I train the Boy. I am his 6th Dad. You bring up children. We all do, What we are really on about here is those who d NOT bring up children. They let them run and go off like feral animals. What can Gordo do about that?
It's a conundrum.
happ096Hmmm.
Yours is a case ( I won't say special). I train the Boy. I am his 6th Dad. You bring up children. We all do, What we are really on about here is those who d NOT bring up children. They let them run and go off like feral animals. What can Gordo do about that?
It's a conundrum.
No it's not. Pay one parent, through the tax system, to stay at home. Remove the laws that say you may not smack your child. Allow teachers to smack children. Bring back the sort of discipline we knew. Make Life mean life. Don't sentence someone to 5 years and let them out after three. Give them thirty years and let them out after 25.
GET TOUGH ~ don't talk tough ~ be it.
Hmmm.
Yours is a case ( I won't say special). I train the Boy. I am his 6th Dad. You bring up children. We all do, What we are really on about here is those who d NOT bring up children. They let them run and go off like feral animals. What can Gordo do about that?
It's a conundrum.
No it's not. Pay one parent, through the tax system, to stay at home. Remove the laws that say you may not smack your child. Allow teachers to smack children. Bring back the sort of discipline we knew. Make Life mean life. Don't sentence someone to 5 years and let them out after three. Give them thirty years and let them out after 25.
GET TOUGH ~ don't talk tough ~ be it.
Hmmm.
Yours is a case ( I won't say special). I train the Boy. I am his 6th Dad. You bring up children. We all do, What we are really on about here is those who d NOT bring up children. They let them run and go off like feral animals. What can Gordo do about that?
It's a conundrum.
No it's not. Pay one parent, through the tax system, to stay at home. Remove the laws that say you may not smack your child. Allow teachers to smack children. Bring back the sort of discipline we knew. Make Life mean life. Don't sentence someone to 5 years and let them out after three. Give them thirty years and let them out after 25.
GET TOUGH ~ don't talk tough ~ be it.
Hmmm.
Yours is a case ( I won't say special). I train the Boy. I am his 6th Dad. You bring up children. We all do, What we are really on about here is those who d NOT bring up children. They let them run and go off like feral animals. What can Gordo do about that?
It's a conundrum.
No it's not. Pay one parent, through the tax system, to stay at home. Remove the laws that say you may not smack your child. Allow teachers to smack children. Bring back the sort of discipline we knew. Make Life mean life. Don't sentence someone to 5 years and let them out after three. Give them thirty years and let them out after 25.
GET TOUGH ~ don't talk tough ~ be it.
eeek:
I still contend it's about bringing up kids!
[: "The people responsible will be tracked down, arrested and punished."
[/i]
Never mind suffer the children - Suffer the bloody nation.Excellent post!
I am sick and tired of people telling me that the country is going to the dogs and if we don't do something anarchy will rule. It's all rubbish. It has happened already.
Decent people these days go out to work in the morning, work all day Monday and most of Tuesday for the taxman and go home and barricade themselves in and watch the decrepit junk on the box or play here on the net, because if truth is told, we don't want to be outside risking our necks any more. The streets belong to the mob.
The more we stay in the greater the freedom we are granting to the rabble that now run the streets. We can't control them, the police can't control them, nobody can! It's already history, these thugs are all comfortably installed in council houses and paid-for lodgings and rearing their own kids and we are paying for them! Children that are being brought up to fight as babies and weaned on knives in brutal drug-ridden crime pit environments. Kids in this kind will be even more uncivilised, reaching a degree further towards their feral roots. They are being born and raised right now!
In my childhood, the schoolteachers were ex-servicemen well used to discipline and so were the police, I grew up to respect them and call them sir. It is only this kind of child rearing that keeps civilisation going. These days even I don't have any respect for the bunch of tossers that can't do anything, so I can hardly expect semi-feral kid to give respect can I? This IS the generation that EXPECTS do do what it wants in any way they want and we get to pay and like it.
'If you come to school we'll give you an iPod' or 'If you break the law we'll send you on a holiday', 'You've been naughty so you'll really have to promise to be good or we'll give you a medal!' For Fu?k's sake when are we going to get our pathetic heads out of our arses and do something? Oh right - I forgot, we gave away the right to protest didn't we? We just make silly jibes at people that care enough to stand up and defy the authorities. Bad luck!
It is far too late to be talking about changing a few laws, surely we know by now that anything we do is fatally flawed because we cannot hurt the children, we must preserve their rights to run amok and never - ever humiliate them because it's not civilised! Relax, safe in the knowledge that in a generation these people will be the prime population of Britain, and they will share power with anarchists and nutcases from around the world that will find Britain to be the only country that will accept them - English not required!
The days of griping about it are fading - fast. The price we all will have paid for electing amateurs to government and being too bloody stupid to learn from our mistakes. We have stood by and watched all this coming and did nothing. Stick your neck out now and it will get arrested or blown clean off.
Enjoy!
A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall
As yet another shooting leaves an 11-year-old dead in Liverpool, former Durham firearms officer David Blackie explores why the Government needs to tackle Britain's spiralling gun crime.
WE are reaping the harvest of those prophetic words of the Bob Dylan song, 'I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children'. It is a reality on our streets; this is not the sad tale of child soldiers in West Africa, it is our children who are the aggressors and the victims, dying for absolutely nothing at all.
On Wednesday evening, an 11-year-old child, Rhys Jones, was shot in Croxteth, Liverpool and died from his wounds - the victim of a ride-by shooting on a BMX bike. A youth of 18, barely an adult, and another child of 14 have been arrested in connection with a crime which is beyond any comprehension.
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Yet this kind of serious crime is becoming all too common. On the same day, a few hours later, in Elswick, Newcastle, another 17 year old was the victim of a stabbing involving a 16 and a 14 year old. On June 9, 15-year-old Alex Mulumbu was stabbed to death in Lambeth by a gang of youths. On September 9 last year, 15-year-old Jessie James was shot while riding his bicycle through a park in Moss Side in Manchester. His crime: defying peer pressure to join the gangland culture prevalent in the city.
We have urban child soldiers, wearing body armour, roaming our streets demanding 'respect' and settling petty disputes with knives or guns. More than five per cent of all firearms-related injuries treated by hospitals last year were suffered by under 16s - a frightening statistic and a bad omen for the future. Often, there is no obvious underlying cause, as in the case of Rhys, but it is merely a demonstration of misplaced juvenile machismo.
Tony Blair had a Cabinet summit on gun crime in February, the present Prime Minister held another yesterday to discuss the escalating problem of gangs and youth crime. Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said yesterday: "We are really serious about looking at what more we can do."
She talks of focus groups, of dialogue and engagement and wants to see greater use of Acceptable Behaviour Contracts - voluntary agreements under which offenders agree to mend their behaviour or face a more serious punishment. Tell this to the grieving family of Rhys Jones. The time for holding summits and talking about causes is over; we must start to deal with the consequences, and do so firmly.
Politicians talk glibly of the responsibility of schools and the break-down of the family as underlying causes, but do little to remove the constraints which have been placed upon the police and the courts to allow them a freedom to take decisive action against this scourge of violence.
Over the last 30 years, the primary functions of the police have been corrupted. No longer does it appear that the protection of life and property, the maintenance of order, the prevention and detection of crime and the prosecution of offenders against the peace are the key concerns of the police. These have been replaced by the role of community social worker, the bean counter of political targets and accountability, the arbiter of political correctness and the guardian of human rights.
It is a relief to see that the Chief Constable of Cleveland, Sean Price, is to put more policemen on the streets to weed out the 'bad men', although the 'zero tolerance' promoted by former 'Robocop', Ray Mallon is more what public opinion is vociferously demanding.
"Give the police more powers" is the knee-jerk reaction when there is any suggestion of a break down of law and order. They do not need any more powers, just the support and confidence to enforce them. There are too many hurdles to jump through before the offenders even reach the court system, such as the Crown Prosecution Service Charging Standards, and too many restrictions on sentencing for magistrates and judges from the Lord Chancellor and his Department of Justice and the Sentencing Guidelines Council and Panel. We should return to the police and the judiciary the power of discretion and reduce the over-burdening administration and bureaucracy.
Numerous theories of punishment have been advanced over the years, notably deterrence, rehabilitation and retribution. Successive governments have regarded various of these theories as being more influential than the others, but the failure to adopt a single principled approach to sentencing has now become a matter of real concern. The Criminal Justice Act 1991 favoured retribution, that criminals should get their 'just deserts'. The 2003 version is far more watered down, referring to the need, in addition to punishment, for a reduction in crime, reform and rehabilitation, the protection of the public and the making of reparation to those affected by crime. Even with the judgement of Solomon, it is difficult to see how a court can effectively apply each appropriately and consistently when sentencing.
Even when offenders have been given custodial sentences there are the inevitable whinges from government over prison overcrowding and expenditure. Perhaps the regimes of prison could bear some re-evaluation with their costly and over sensitive education systems, the privileges of televisions in cells and the over emphasis on prisoners' rights. What right can anyone have to take away the life of an 11-year-old boy and what rights does that perpetrator deserve?
There have been amnesties for guns and knives many times before but now, more than ever, society needs to rid them from our streets. Let us again see a national amnesty, but let the Government leave in no doubt those who seek to retain their weapons that they will suffer the maximum penalty which the law allows.
Give back to the police and the courts the assurance that they will have the support of government and the public to arrest and sentence effectively. Allow them to help us to reclaim our communities, street by street, estate by estate, town by town and city by city. Let us talk of consequences not of causes. Let it be known that society will no longer tolerate a gun culture, a gang culture or a yob culture.
If we fail in this now, while we still might have a chance, it will be a hard road back.
David Blackie was a member of the firearms team that attended the fatal shooting by Albert Dryden of Teesdale planning officer Harry Collinson at Butsfield, Consett, in 1991. He has since written a book about the case.
Shows the state of the game though, that they can't get any witnesses. That is where the real story lies. They dare to do this stuff because they know that everyone is too scared to bear witness.I couldn?t agree more.
Until we have fixed that, we'll never fix the gangs, if we can't fix the gangs - we can't fix the guns. Personally, I think we have left it too late.
Dear God! I am finding myself swearing at the TV.Excellent post sir!
The 'New' answer to gun crime is an 'anonymous' gun hand-in scheme! Building confidence they say! Banghead
Are they REALLY so devoid of any intelligence that this is the best they can manage under pressure? Seeing as at least we have seen it as a priority issue for months if not years must mean 'they' are not thinking about it at all.
Ban guns - that's the answer. Oh dear! More gun crime. Never mind, give em really long sentences - that'll scare em. Well, that didn't work either did it, so what now - Ah! I have it! get them to hand in their ?300 gun - Yeah that's it!
Utter tossers. You have never ever had drugs legal and it is the all-pervasive drug market that needs protecting with guns. If you can't stop the drugs.... - hello? ::)
When guns could be legally held, they tended to be a mark of respect because the ticket holder has obviously passed a searching police check as a suitable holder. and while there was gun crime, it was mainly confined to gang use and didn....Hang on... Say that again? Gang use?? Oh Yes! Never thought of that! In the old days gangs didn't really bother us they fought amongst themselves and left us alone.
So what do we do. Ban guns! Double ban guns! Ban pictures of guns. Arrest anybody that even mentions the word guns! What does that achieve? Street cred! "I've got the balls to carry... up yours" is the result "I'm mean - I'm hard - I'll do what I want and I'm not a proper gangster without a shooter."
The more you kick up a fuss about guns the more popular they will be because these youngsters are rebels. Anything that is banned or even disapproved of by government will do - Hell, if the government banned cross dressing they'd wear heels! The incentive to do anything is generated by societies disapproval. This generation of kids have realised that the world is their oyster if they simply ignore the rules and be aggressive because they are untouchable. Today they are terrorising neighbourhoods, tomorrow robbing banks and then holding governments to ransom. They have noticed that anybody with the balls to stand up to them is dealt with sharply by the law for them, otherwise they'll simply shoot them theirselves. Win - Win situation! Kids have no sense of vulnerability, the ten years inside will never apply to them, they are too smart to get caught and if they are nasty enough to terrorise everybody, then there will never be any evidence against them. I'm amazed they aren't running protection, or maybe they are and its being kept quiet. Fear is the glue that is holding all this together so there is only one thing that will break this hold, and that's fear back!
Fear? What kind of fear? --- Fear of pain? Fear of shame... Oh I don't know, why don't we ask some kids? Maybe take their iPods off them?
But what do we do? Think up a hand-in scheme! It is hard to believe that we are quite so inept, everyone keeps yelling for more laws, It's not going to work, we have more than enough laws to jail the entire population, but nowhere to put them. nobody wants to be the one that actually admit that all this progressive shit didn't work and we need to wipe the slate and go back to building more jails and getting on with some sensible policing.
Give them what they are asking for - consequences! You know it makes sense.
No it's not. Pay one parent, through the tax system, to stay at home. Remove the laws that say you may not smack your child.
I don't think it's a case of paying a parent to stay home, Mrs H has to work. What would help is if I wasn't taxed in excess of ?500 a month for the likes of her mother and sister (and other dole scum) to sit at home and not look after their children.
There is a huge issue with the underclass in this country and most trouble seems to stem from them. There used to be a working class, a little rough around the edges but generally respectful citizens. Dole scum now think they deserve to be kept and live outside of normal functional society and are rewarded for it; hence they feel above the law.
I also disagree with you suggesting a fear of authorities. I do not fear anybody questioning the way i bring up my children. I'm also unsure that there is a law preventing smacking???
As for Mrs H working because of your tax bill these things are relative. Perhaps a cheaper house, not owning two cars and not taking foreign holidays would help. Reduced expenditure on non essentials is a sure way of living on one income. I know because when forcibly retired due to ill health at the age of 54 my income plummeted from ?45k pa to ?15K. We survived even with three school age children to provide for. In other words be less aspirational and you can live on less.