The Virtual Pub

Come Inside... => The Commons => Topic started by: Steve on October 03, 2013, 01:19:22 PM

Title: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2013, 01:19:22 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

Cyprus has probably figured that yet another awful dirge aimed only at getting Greek votes was going to hurt the vital tourist trade.  Greece will now be mortified realising that their guaranteed douze points have just gone down the tubes



Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: boogs on October 03, 2013, 04:19:12 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2013, 04:29:12 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: boogs on October 03, 2013, 04:37:22 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully
lol: lol: lol:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 03, 2013, 05:08:57 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: boogs on October 03, 2013, 05:10:50 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

 Thumbs:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Barman on October 03, 2013, 05:11:33 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Nothing to see on the pub today Miss A.... move on to another web site like.....  whistle:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 03, 2013, 05:16:45 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Nothing to see on the pub today Miss A.... move on to another web site like.....  whistle:

Caught you at it!! point:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Barman on October 03, 2013, 05:18:51 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Nothing to see on the pub today Miss A.... move on to another web site like.....  whistle:

Caught you at it!! point:

 redface:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2013, 05:25:10 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Cyprus?


If you can cover your debts and not have to go begging to Germany for €Bmega donations to bail you out you're not skint

Same as anyone that has a mortgage and can pay the monthly repayments is not skint and if you look we have been more in hock than we are now.

(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ukpublicspending.co.uk%2Finclude%2Fuk_debt_20c.png&hash=cb2451de202bdeb364a914613d568dfd4c7fb034)

Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Barman on October 03, 2013, 05:30:06 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Cyprus?


If you can cover your debts and not have to go begging to Germany for €Bmega donations to bail you out you're not skint

Same as anyone that has a mortgage and can pay the monthly repayments is not skint and if you look we have been more in hock than we are now.

(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ukpublicspending.co.uk%2Finclude%2Fuk_debt_20c.png&hash=cb2451de202bdeb364a914613d568dfd4c7fb034)

I think the war was a bit different Steve.... haven't we only just finished paying the Yanks back the money we borrowed to build arms...?

And how much cash has the UK simply printed...?

The advantage the UK has over say Greece is that we can still pint more cash that we need... but that doesn't make the country any less in debt at the end of the day....
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2013, 05:41:01 PM
Yes the advantage the UK has over Greece is we are not skint
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Grumpmeister on October 03, 2013, 05:44:02 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Wonga's favourite kind of customer?  rubschin:

It could be worse, at least we arent America...

BBC Newsreader refers U.S. Shutdown crisis as"BUDGET SHIT" Live on AIR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LwZDsCIciQ#)
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 03, 2013, 05:54:24 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:

rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Cyprus?


If you can cover your debts and not have to go begging to Germany for €Bmega donations to bail you out you're not skint

Same as anyone that has a mortgage and can pay the monthly repayments is not skint and if you look we have been more in hock than we are now.

(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ukpublicspending.co.uk%2Finclude%2Fuk_debt_20c.png&hash=cb2451de202bdeb364a914613d568dfd4c7fb034)

I think the war was a bit different Steve.... haven't we only just finished paying the Yanks back the money we borrowed to build arms...?

And how much cash has the UK simply printed...?

The advantage the UK has over say Greece is that we can still pint more cash that we need... but that doesn't make the country any less in debt at the end of the day....

Not quite the same thing Steve, these sovereign debts will never be paid, unlike most mortgages. Cyprus has not had the 'luxury' of being able to print it's own money like the UK or US to be able to buy up it's own debt - at historically low interest rates. The bond market in the UK will have the ultimate say, as it is starting to in the US, then we will see who is skint. In the meantime the value of the pound will have been seriously damaged.
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Barman on October 03, 2013, 05:57:09 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:

rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Cyprus?


If you can cover your debts and not have to go begging to Germany for €Bmega donations to bail you out you're not skint

Same as anyone that has a mortgage and can pay the monthly repayments is not skint and if you look we have been more in hock than we are now.

(https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ukpublicspending.co.uk%2Finclude%2Fuk_debt_20c.png&hash=cb2451de202bdeb364a914613d568dfd4c7fb034)

I think the war was a bit different Steve.... haven't we only just finished paying the Yanks back the money we borrowed to build arms...?

And how much cash has the UK simply printed...?

The advantage the UK has over say Greece is that we can still pint more cash that we need... but that doesn't make the country any less in debt at the end of the day....

Not quite the same thing Steve, these sovereign debts will never be paid, unlike most mortgages. Cyprus has not had the 'luxury' of being able to print it's own money like the UK or US to be able to buy up it's own debt - at historically low interest rates. The bond market in the UK will have the ultimate say, as it is starting to in the US, then we will see who is skint. In the meantime the value of the pound will have been seriously damaged.

worthy:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 03, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
Grrrr evil: evil: evil: the UK is not skint

 happy001 happy001 happy001 happy001      cool14:
rubschin:  cool14: eh?   I shall plot my next move carefully

What would you call a country with £1.6 trillion debt (not including unfunded liabilities such as pensions) then?

Wonga's favourite kind of customer?  rubschin:

It could be worse, at least we arent America...

BBC Newsreader refers U.S. Shutdown crisis as"BUDGET SHIT" Live on AIR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LwZDsCIciQ#)

Yes!! they have been printing 85 billion a month(!!) (Cyprus' whole bailout was 10 billion) for the past 3 years and it has made no difference except to wipe out savers and make their bonds worthless.
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2013, 07:01:18 PM
Yes not many realise that the UK is rated AAA and the US only AA

http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/sovereigns/ratings-list/en/us/?subSectorCode=&start=100&range=50 (http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/sovereigns/ratings-list/en/us/?subSectorCode=&start=100&range=50)

Cyprus is CCC, Greece is B-

To be fair Cyprus national debt is actually about the same per capita and as a % of GDP as the UK but is not ranked as junk debt just on a whim.  The Cyprus ratios have been accelerating to worse and the UK slowing down toward better and crucially we have been part of helping bail outs not asking for them

Stories of "wipe out savers and make their bonds worthless" are for want of a better word: fanciful.  No bank has failed to honour in full and the bond based gilts market climbed even faster than the FTSE over the last 4 years.

Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 03, 2013, 07:31:11 PM
Yes not many realise that the UK is rated AAA and the US only AA

http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/sovereigns/ratings-list/en/us/?subSectorCode=&start=100&range=50 (http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/sovereigns/ratings-list/en/us/?subSectorCode=&start=100&range=50)

Cyprus is CCC, Greece is B-

To be fair Cyprus national debt is actually about the same per capita and as a % of GDP as the UK but is not ranked as junk debt just on a whim.  The Cyprus ratios have been accelerating to worse and the UK slowing down toward better and crucially we have been part of helping bail outs not asking for them

Stories of "wipe out savers and make their bonds worthless" are for want of a better word: fanciful.  No bank has failed to honour in full and the bond based gilts market climbed even faster than the FTSE over the last 4 years.

We are talking at cross purposes, I am not defending Cyprus over the UK, I believe that the monetary policies of the US, UK and Eurozone as a whole are well and truly ****** in equal measure. However, if the UK hadn't been able to engage in QE, it would be in the same state as Cyprus.

Anyone who lives on or depends upon interest on savings has seen their income drop 60 - 80% over the last 4 to 5 years in any of the above jurisdictions, so to say it is fanciful is an insult. And whilst bonds have been strong, we are now well and truly at the end of a 30 year bull bond market with very probably a 30 year bear market ahead.

If you want to see real ratings, take a look at http://www.weissratings.com/help/how-do-i.aspx (http://www.weissratings.com/help/how-do-i.aspx)
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 03, 2013, 08:08:27 PM
I could never understand why people thought that cash interest rates would always be positive in real terms.  That said my main cash accounts are still getting 3% tax free and 6% tax to pay.

And the UK is not skint even though Ed Balls and that Mr Farage would like to make it so
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Baldy on October 03, 2013, 09:43:32 PM
Oooooheeeer Mrs.  scared2:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 04, 2013, 06:00:16 AM
If you say so, worth bearing in mind though that S&P had the US Subprime debt rated AAA before it went T*ts up as well rubschin:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 04, 2013, 07:18:43 AM
If you say so, worth bearing in mind though that S&P had the US Subprime debt rated AAA before it went T*ts up as well rubschin:
rubschin: indeed, good point

IIRC Cyprus and Spain were rated very highly too with then government surpluses, economies can be very fragile with huge interdependencies.  The UK should have been well placed to ride it all out but the idiots had been spending money hand over fist on more and more welfare we could not afford
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 04, 2013, 07:30:43 AM
At last - we agree on something Thumbs:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 04, 2013, 07:34:34 AM
 :thumbsup:

I just don't like seeing the UK run down here, there and everywhere.  It's not perfect, far from it but it goes OTT sometimes.
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 08, 2013, 07:56:45 AM
:thumbsup:

I just don't like seeing the UK run down here, there and everywhere.  It's not perfect, far from it but it goes OTT sometimes.

Saying that the UK has debts isn't knocking it, that's on the record. I love the UK, I just can't stand the weather and my taxes paying for the inflated part of the welfare state. My other comments apply to the west equally, not just the UK.

I can't find the other threads about interest and haircuts, but to continue our previous conversations, banks need deposits to lend and if you don't reward depositors with adequate interest on a 'supply and demand' basis then they won't save. Equally so, haircutting deposits causes savers to lose trust in banks so they withdraw deposits and put them under the bed. Cyprus is a prime example of this, there is no liquidity because everyone is getting their money out. No money=no lending=no growth

Real growth and therefore wealth for everyone is created by deposits being used for entrepreneurial enterprises, either by the saver itself or by the bank lending it out, not by governments printing money.

All that said, I am having a lovely time in London, just come back from a walk in Hyde Park - fab!
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Steve on October 08, 2013, 10:13:45 AM
Hyde Park :thumbsup:

Have you tried Regents Park or James Park? 


Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Miss Adventure on October 08, 2013, 05:16:34 PM
Hyde Park :thumbsup:

Have you tried Regents Park or James Park?

Not on this trip unless I get a bit of time before Thursday - I love the fact that a city like London has such marvellous parks - and great monuments cloud9:
Title: Re: The UK is/is not skint thread
Post by: Barman on October 09, 2013, 08:03:11 AM
:thumbsup:

I just don't like seeing the UK run down here, there and everywhere.  It's not perfect, far from it but it goes OTT sometimes.

Saying that the UK has debts isn't knocking it, that's on the record. I love the UK, I just can't stand the weather and my taxes paying for the inflated part of the welfare state. My other comments apply to the west equally, not just the UK.

I can't find the other threads about interest and haircuts, but to continue our previous conversations, banks need deposits to lend and if you don't reward depositors with adequate interest on a 'supply and demand' basis then they won't save. Equally so, haircutting deposits causes savers to lose trust in banks so they withdraw deposits and put them under the bed. Cyprus is a prime example of this, there is no liquidity because everyone is getting their money out. No money=no lending=no growth

Real growth and therefore wealth for everyone is created by deposits being used for entrepreneurial enterprises, either by the saver itself or by the bank lending it out, not by governments printing money.

All that said, I am having a lovely time in London, just come back from a walk in Hyde Park - fab!

Under your bed you say....?  rubschin: