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Offline Steve

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Le Mans
« on: June 22, 2013, 01:22:37 PM »
Unusually the Eurosport coverage so far has been tolerable and a cracking first few Audi v Toyota laps and one Aston written off so safety car right now

http://www.24h-lemans.com/live/en/
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Offline apc2010

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2013, 01:25:06 PM »
My best mate goes every year ...... Thumbs:  (from UK)
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Offline Steve

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2013, 02:47:03 PM »
I'll have to go one year, just can't be doing with all that leave Thursday back Monday night camping 4 nights pallaver

This year Toyota v Audi is looking close
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Offline Steve

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2013, 04:26:53 PM »
Very bad news

Allan Simonsen killed

first death in the race for a long long time
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Offline boogs

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 09:09:44 PM »
Quote from: Steve on June 22, 2013, 04:26:53 PM
Very bad news

Allan Simonsen killed

first death in the race for a long long time

1997 at le man circuit 1986 at the race Very sad another young life gone...
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Offline Steve

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2013, 09:25:19 PM »
“Unhappily, motor racing is also this”  Mario Andretti 1978


My heart's not in following this race anymore. 

There's a video from the car behind at You Tube

Leading his class he goes wide on a fast right hand corner so has his RH wheels on the still wet white line when seeing the Ferrari spin down the road he brakes hard.  Result his car just turns left violently where there's no run off area.

Motor racing is dangerous, I guess it has to be.   Still sickening at times.
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Offline boogs

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2013, 08:00:50 AM »
Quote from: Steve on June 22, 2013, 09:25:19 PM
“Unhappily, motor racing is also this”  Mario Andretti 1978


My heart's not in following this race anymore. 

There's a video from the car behind at You Tube

Leading his class he goes wide on a fast right hand corner so has his RH wheels on the still wet white line when seeing the Ferrari spin down the road he brakes hard.  Result his car just turns left violently where there's no run off area.

Motor racing is dangerous, I guess it has to be.   Still sickening at times.

Yes it is but that is a large part of why they do it the thrill surely ... They a know the dangers and are prepared to risk themselves for the likes of us to get pleasure from watching....... rubschin:
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Offline Steve

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2013, 09:10:43 AM »
Expect the FIA to be investigating this one.  Seems the barrier failed as it wasn't properly secured and was badly placed so effectively a tree took the impact.

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Offline boogs

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2013, 11:20:42 AM »
Quote from: Steve on June 23, 2013, 09:10:43 AM
Expect the FIA to be investigating this one.  Seems the barrier failed as it wasn't properly secured and was badly placed so effectively a tree took the impact.

Bluddy hell it should be investigated and if found to be true they should have the book thrown at them... eeek:
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Offline Steve

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2013, 11:44:19 AM »
I got that from the Eurosport commentary, seems all further official communication is being withheld.  What they said was the barriers was too close to a tree and was secured by posts driven into the ground and not set in concrete as on other tracks

Problem is that track is 90% public roads - worth driving it if you're ever there

Aston have handled it very well - see http://www.astonmartin.com/racing

And if his family wanted the racing to continue then I will look again and unusually it is very interesting with just over an hour to go.  Although one of the Toyotas just had a huge shunt as I was typing - driver walked away!
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Offline Just One More

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2013, 11:55:36 AM »
I was just looking at the location via Streetview and satellite image as you were posting Steve. Part of my job is to investigate claims (which often involves safety fences) and I know that that situation wouldn't be permitted on our roads for 70mph, let alone the speed these guys go at. Safety fences and the installation of them have come on leaps and bounds in the last few years. If that was on our roads, the closeness of the trees may be an issue, but the spacing of the safety posts would be an issue; but whether the posts are driven, concreted-in or placed in concreted-in sockets if determined by ground conditions

Either way, the poor lad is no longer with us
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Offline Steve

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2013, 12:18:16 PM »
Quote from: Just One More on June 23, 2013, 11:55:36 AM
I was just looking at the location via Streetview and satellite image as you were posting Steve. Part of my job is to investigate claims (which often involves safety fences) and I know that that situation wouldn't be permitted on our roads for 70mph, let alone the speed these guys go at. Safety fences and the installation of them have come on leaps and bounds in the last few years. If that was on our roads, the closeness of the trees may be an issue, but the spacing of the safety posts would be an issue; but whether the posts are driven, concreted-in or placed in concreted-in sockets if determined by ground conditions

Either way, the poor lad is no longer with us
An expert view!  Ta

Eurosport were saying it was in sandy soil.  ::)
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Offline Steve

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2013, 12:27:03 PM »
Just to be clear I believe the FIA and the French authorities will and should take the view that this is a death that we have to learn from not seek blame for.

But expect an awful lot of sucking teeth at the likely cost of measures those lessons suggest
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Offline boogs

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2013, 01:01:50 PM »
Quote from: Steve on June 23, 2013, 11:44:19 AM
I got that from the Eurosport commentary, seems all further official communication is being withheld.  What they said was the barriers was too close to a tree and was secured by posts driven into the ground and not set in concrete as on other tracks

Problem is that track is 90% public roads - worth driving it if you're ever there

Aston have handled it very well - see http://www.astonmartin.com/racing

And if his family wanted the racing to continue then I will look again and unusually it is very interesting with just over an hour to go.  Although one of the Toyotas just had a huge shunt as I was typing - driver walked away!

I understand what you are saying we went there a few years back and have driven the roads they use ,also  under the track round to the pitlane ,  enjoyed the museum there too...

Surely tho it is their responsibility to ensure they conform to all regulations and if they haven't for whatever reason and the inevitable happens they should be held responsible.... Usual story I suppose financial constraints... usually false economy.... IMHO lives can not be compensated... you can be rest assured this will cost them big time tho...

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Offline Steve

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Re: Le Mans
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 01:14:29 PM »
From legal advice I once got a good rule on death is "could you/they have done something to prevent it?"  and if the answer is yes then "why didn't you"

Two good answers are

- because it would have been disproportionate

- because we couldn't reasonably have seen that happening

This IMHO is going to fall into the latter.  It was on the exit of a bend where such a high speed collision was unlikely.  At other parts of the track they had 4 layers of tyres (which is why that Toyota driver not only got away with his high speed shunt but they recovered and repaired the car.

The FIA would almost certainly have inspected and licensed the track

Have to learn not blame
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