The Virtual Pub
Come Inside... => The Commons => Topic started by: Grumpmeister on February 25, 2017, 12:31:20 AM
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So our oh so hard working MP's are getting a 1.3% pay rise in April despite getting an increase from £67k to £74k in 2015.
Lets have a look at this a second. 1.4% of 74 grand is £1036, multiplied by 650 MP's comes to £672750
Now lets take a look at the 7 grand pay rise last year, multiplied by 650 MP's, comes to £4550000
A grand total of.............. £5,222,750 added to their salary bill in less than 2 years. Not including 'extras'.
Now lets put this into context
A newly qualified police officer earns £19,773 p/a in their first 2 years
A newly qualified nurse earns £21692 p/a in their first 2 years
A newly qualified doctor earns approximately £23000 p/a in their first 2 years
Those pay rises could have funded 264 new police officers
Those pay rises could have funded 240 new nurses
Those pay rises could have funded 227 new doctors
Or any combination thereof.
Given how clear it has been that both the front line police services as well as the NHS have been shown to be short staffed with services and coverage being cut across the board. Hell one of the biggest reasons why the NHS budget is so buggered up is that it has to fork out an absolute fortune to hire agency and locum staff at a greater cost. Just how the hell can they justify this. cussing:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4256356/MPs-1-4-cent-pay-rise-76-000.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4256356/MPs-1-4-cent-pay-rise-76-000.html)
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
They have no shame have they...? noooo:
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(https://i.postimg.cc/N5wYH8Br/hol.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5wYH8Br)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/N5wYH8Br/hol.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5wYH8Br)
;D
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
Is this the Commons? Yep so a serious comment
First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go noooo: at such but then think it through
Do I want a two house parliament? yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such? yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members? yes
And those that live outside the M25? yes
So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
Is this the Commons? Yep so a serious comment
First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go noooo: at such but then think it through
Do I want a two house parliament? yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such? yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members? yes
And those that live outside the M25? yes
So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
Yes but, no but...
I think what you say is largely true...
However...
The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards! eeek:
I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.
Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...
But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.
And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
Is this the Commons? Yep so a serious comment
First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go noooo: at such but then think it through
Do I want a two house parliament? yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such? yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members? yes
And those that live outside the M25? yes
So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
Yes but, no but...
I think what you say is largely true...
However...
The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards! eeek:
I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.
Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...
But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.
And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
Agreed
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
Is this the Commons? Yep so a serious comment
First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go noooo: at such but then think it through
Do I want a two house parliament? yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such? yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members? yes
And those that live outside the M25? yes
So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
Yes but, no but...
I think what you say is largely true...
However...
The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards! eeek:
I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.
Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...
But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.
And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
Agreed
Looking at the current system it's untenable. Once the House of Lords did function as it is required to but that was before consecutive governments stuffed it full of flunkies, sycophants and anyone who could afford to pay for a seat or perform a service (don't even get me started on Shami Chakrabarti's 'in depth' probe proving there was no anti semitism in the Labour party).
On a purely financial level £475 a day for an average of say 150 days a year comes to an income of £72150 a year, now multiply that by the 700 sitting in the House and you end up with £49,875,000 and that is before you start to factor in all the perks such as the subsidised luxury restaurants and bars available to them. Lets also not forget that there have already been cases of members just signing in for the allowance and then not doing anything. If you want to pay them a wage commensurate then you need to make sure that they are actually doing what they are going to be paid for and not just enjoying the facilities.
Long term, for the almost 50 million a year you would be better off either buying or building an accomodation block for the members to use and then not subsidising them if they choose to use a luxury hotel.
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
Is this the Commons? Yep so a serious comment
First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go noooo: at such but then think it through
Do I want a two house parliament? yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such? yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members? yes
And those that live outside the M25? yes
So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
Yes but, no but...
I think what you say is largely true...
However...
The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards! eeek:
I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.
Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...
But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.
And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
Agreed
Looking at the current system it's untenable. Once the House of Lords did function as it is required to but that was before consecutive governments stuffed it full of flunkies, sycophants and anyone who could afford to pay for a seat or perform a service (don't even get me started on Shami Chakrabarti's 'in depth' probe proving there was no anti semitism in the Labour party).
On a purely financial level £475 a day for an average of say 150 days a year comes to an income of £72150 a year, now multiply that by the 700 sitting in the House and you end up with £49,875,000 and that is before you start to factor in all the perks such as the subsidised luxury restaurants and bars available to them. Lets also not forget that there have already been cases of members just signing in for the allowance and then not doing anything. If you want to pay them a wage commensurate then you need to make sure that they are actually doing what they are going to be paid for and not just enjoying the facilities.
Long term, for the almost 50 million a year you would be better off either buying or building an accomodation block for the members to use and then not subsidising them if they choose to use a luxury hotel.
Quite! :thumbsup:
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So if you want top people in our legislature you treat them like schoolchildren in a boarding school
Doesn't work does it
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So if you want top people in our legislature you treat them like schoolchildren in a boarding school
Doesn't work does it
Nobody is suggesting that... ::)
But it does seem that our 'political masters' have difficulty finding affordable accommodation in London - hence the demand for a higher daily allowance and the second homes scandal.
I have to say, when I worked at Grosvenor Place I never found any difficulty finding cheap accommodation when I needed it (got pissed after work and couldn't drive home, tube strike threatened traffic chaos so stayed over, etc.)...
However, given that the 700+ Lords and 600+ MPs can't manage to do that (or get their staff to do it for them) wouldn't it make sense for the state to provide hotel-type accommodation for them? It wouldn't have to be 'boarding school' but it wouldn't have to be six star either. It would have the added advantage of being secure and having secure WiFi and network access (presumably) to the servers at the big house.
You know, taxpayers are paying for this - many of them have a horrendous commute to work every day and back every night funded from their own pockets. I did it for years. I don't think it unreasonable that those taxpayers have a bit of transparency on where their hard-earned is spent if our 'political masters' are really too precious to get themselves to work and home again five days a week.
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So if you want top people in our legislature you treat them like schoolchildren in a boarding school
Doesn't work does it
Nobody is suggesting that... ::)
. .
Apart from saying "buying or building an accomodation block for the members to use" ?
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So if you want top people in our legislature you treat them like schoolchildren in a boarding school
Doesn't work does it
Nobody is suggesting that... ::)
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Apart from saying "buying or building an accomodation block for the members to use" ?
How is that 'treating them like schoolchildren in a boarding school'...?
Did you read the rest of my post or stop there...? ::)
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Oh course I read it
I want top people there regardless of their background wealth and you're never going to get it for £300 a day and offer them an accomondation block which I repeat is going to end up like a boarding school. You may hate our current politicians but you are never going to change that by making it impossible for decent people with any brain to replace them
As for you experience of staying in London did you do it day after day after day, week after week?
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Oh course I read it
I want top people there regardless of their background wealth and you're never going to get it for £300 a day and offer them an accomondation block which I repeat is going to end up like a boarding school. You may hate our current politicians but you are never going to change that by making it impossible for decent people with any brain to replace them
As for you experience of staying in London did you do it day after day after day, week after week?
You are conflating two completely separate issues.
1) How the lords are funded. I've already stated in my earlier post that I'd be perfectly happy to pay a salary commensurate with the position if the 'lords' (or whatever the second house was called) were elected and the place not just stuffed full of political place men. Remember, MPs get £80K a year and look at the shower of shite sitting in the HoC at the moment - paying a decent salary (plus expenses and subsidised food & booze) is obviously no guarantee of getting the 'right' people.
2) Provision of accommodation. The justification for the second home allowance and the need to increase the daily allowance for the lords is because they have to sit late at night, the poor dears. So why not provide them with suitable secure accommodation for when they need to do so? Why should the taxpayer subsidise a second home or give an allowance so that they can stay in a five star hotel? Remember, MPs earn £80K a year...?
As for me, yes I did stay up in town for long periods when the job demanded it, I pulled a few 'overnighters' too installing systems in city firms...
And remember, thousands of those taxpayers commute every single day into the smoke at their own expense with no second-home allowance or subsidised hotels - many of them earning significantly less than MPs.
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So a member of the House of Lords from say Leeds has to stay night after night in an accomodation block?
That's just beating up future members because you hate the current ones
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So a member of the House of Lords from say Leeds has to stay night after night in an accomodation block?
That's just beating up future members because you hate the current ones
I didn't say 'accommodation block' nor 'boarding school', you did. ::)
I said 'hotel type' accommodation which could have all the facilities (interwebz, secretarial, etc.) that they need and could ensure their security in these violent times.
But yes, why shouldn't our representative be prepared to commute long distances - plenty of ordinary people do that every single day of their working lives - and they work a damn site more than 141 days a year too!
What are the sitting (meeting) hours of the House of Lords?
The hours of business in the House of Lords Chamber are generally:
Mondays and Tuesdays from 2.30pm
Wednesdays from 3pm
Thursdays from 11am
some Fridays from 10am
The House usually sits until 10-11pm, occasionally much later and sometimes all night.
How many days does the House of Lords sit in a session?
Session 2016-17: 141 days
How long is the average sitting day in the House of Lords?
Session 2016-17: average daily hours sat = 6 hours 38 minutes
How many late sittings (after 10pm) were there last session?
Session 2016-17: 31
The poor dears eh...? (https://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-lords-faqs/lords-statistics/) ::)
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So a member of the House of Lords from say Leeds has to stay night after night in an accomodation block?
That's just beating up future members because you hate the current ones
I didn't say 'accommodation block' nor 'boarding school', you did. ::) . . .
Actually you did by saying 'quite' to Grumpy's post that suggested it and criticising me for challenging the idea
https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/index.php?topic=13610.msg659651#msg659651 (https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/index.php?topic=13610.msg659651#msg659651)
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
Is this the Commons? Yep so a serious comment
First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go noooo: at such but then think it through
Do I want a two house parliament? yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such? yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members? yes
And those that live outside the M25? yes
So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
Yes but, no but...
I think what you say is largely true...
However...
The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards! eeek:
I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.
Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...
But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.
And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
Agreed
I knew I should have framed this moment ;D
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So a member of the House of Lords from say Leeds has to stay night after night in an accomodation block?
That's just beating up future members because you hate the current ones
I didn't say 'accommodation block' nor 'boarding school', you did. ::) . . .
Actually you did by saying 'quite' to Grumpy's post that suggested it and criticising me for challenging the idea
https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/index.php?topic=13610.msg659651#msg659651 (https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/index.php?topic=13610.msg659651#msg659651)
No, as you rightly say, Grumpy said it... ::)
My agreeing with the sentiment of the post does not imply 100% agreement with every tiny detail, that is just being pedantic... Grumpy also said in an earlier post that Premier Inn type accommodation was acceptable.
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And now the House of Lords wants an increase of almost £200 a day for the attendance allowance so that they can afford hotel prices in London.
Tell you what, when the police ,NHS, education and MOD have enough money to function properly then we will consider letting you have more of our hard earned taxes. Until then you can do what those of us who live in the real world do and stay in cheaper hotels like a Premier Inn instead of the 5 star hotels you feel entitled to at our expense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7112541/Peers-complain-300-day-tax-free-allowance-inadequate.html)
Is this the Commons? Yep so a serious comment
First instinct of everyone (incl me) is to go noooo: at such but then think it through
Do I want a two house parliament? yes
Does the HofL by and large function OK as such? yes
Do I want it the less than filthy rich to be motivated and able to be active members? yes
And those that live outside the M25? yes
So make sure they are properly recompensed for when they put in a full day's House of Lording and since they receive no salary maybe this isn't too unreasonable
Yes but, no but...
I think what you say is largely true...
However...
The Lords is packed full of political place men and bishops FFS - over seven hundred of the bastards! eeek:
I doubt if any of them are finding it hard to pay their bills on a day-to-day basis, like the Commons, most of them are completely removed from the day-to-day lives of those they control through their actions.
Yes, I think a second house is a good idea...
But I think is should be elected, not chosen by our political masters. Perhaps via a PR system rather than FPTP so that it doesn't just become a replica of the other house... Perhaps then it might contain some members that do know what it is like to be living in 21st Century UK.
And then, yes for sure pay a wage commensurate with that position.
Agreed
I knew I should have framed this moment ;D
happy001
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I was thinking less boarding school and more well equipped and secure hotel style accomodation for both Lords and MP's as once built the maintenance and staff costs would still be lower than the amount being paid yearly to cover the same costs with the current system.
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So while inflation and tax/NI increases are costing families up to £1200 a year MP's are all set to get a £2000 pay rise. Because we are all in this together. cussing:
I'll be interested to see how many show a degree of awareness and integrity and refuse the pay rise.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10380681/MPs-pay-scheduled-rise-82-000-day-Britain-hit-rocketing-National-Insurance.html
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cussing:
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Mental... noooo:
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And here we go again. Household finances are being hammered by tax/NI rising and the cost of living increasing and MP's decide that as they've been soooooo busy over the last year now is the perfect time to announce they are giving themselves pay rise of £2200. I'm sure it's pure coincidence that this happens to nicely cover the new £2000 cap on energy bills. Banghead
So much for Boris and Starmer saying that while households are facing higher bills and increases in taxes there should not be any increase in MP's salaries. Then again it does seem that Carrie has expensive tastes.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/mp-pay-rise-2022-politicians-salary-increase-uk-tax-rises-energy-bills-1492279
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And here we go again. Household finances are being hammered by tax/NI rising and the cost of living increasing and MP's decide that as they've been soooooo busy over the last year now is the perfect time to announce they are giving themselves pay rise of £2200. I'm sure it's pure coincidence that this happens to nicely cover the new £2000 cap on energy bills. Banghead
So much for Boris and Starmer saying that while households are facing higher bills and increases in taxes there should not be any increase in MP's salaries. Then again it does seem that Carrie has expensive tastes.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/mp-pay-rise-2022-politicians-salary-increase-uk-tax-rises-energy-bills-1492279
Terrible timing... Anybody with any sense whatsoever would have kicked it down the road a year or so... noooo:
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Pay peanuts for top jobs and you get monkeys and clever people taking bribes
There's never a time for a good look for MP's pay rises